Lure Size on Eagle....why upsize?

[stevestlouis]

I’d first like to say, ‘awesome job on the forum to moderator, Steve, and all those that have posted’. It is very active with a litany of information. I’ve fished NW Ontario, Vermillion Bay area for 20 years now since I was a pretty young. Damn how the years fly. Like many, I’ve moved from multi-species fishing to just muskie fishing. My question is concerning bait size compared to other lakes in angling for Muskie. I fished Canyon Lake back when Johnny Bratland had his camp (RIP Johnny,) Corner Lake, Long Legged, and predominately the Indian Chain. Fishing time has been consistent with the end of August. I’ll be up in mid-August this year. We downsized many times and used Super Spooks, 7’’ Jakes….etc….instead of Jackpots and 9’’ and 11’’ Jakes. This downsizing provided more muskies in the boat without reducing the average size catch.

I’ll be on Eagle Lake for the first time ever in 10 days. Needless to say I’m stoked. Many guides in the area have told me to go larger with bait presentation on this lake. Why is that? Also, I’ve have had mixed results with suspended glide baits like ‘Magic Maker’…..many lookers but few takers….what is your opinion on these lures for Eagle. Finally, with the cooler water temps have you noticed fish suspended more? The last few years we predominately cast deep divers and trolled them as they fish were down. Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I’ve got three newbies to NW Ontario and I’d love to see them meet with success and their first muskie.

Once again, great job with the forum and to all those that have posted.

Steve S.

[Steve Herbeck]

thanks much,
smaller baits will and do catch fish for sure and when it's sunny and flat or post cold front sometimes downsizing can be a key. however we do tend to use larger baits because of the forage of big suckers,whitefish,tullibees,and pike as well as generally bigger avg sized fish. downsizing is more towards flashers,show girls,blue fox or mepps #5-6,buchertail 600,harrassers,dancing raiders,7" gramas,straight raiders,etc.
everyday we go out we are looking for,trying/hoping for 50"+ fish and are generally always around fish of that calibur and bigger daily.
also the bigger silouette,more flash and vibs allow us to cover ground faster looking for aggressive fish as we got a lot of acreage and spots .some guide days we may cover 35 miles of lake 1 way hitting 12-20 prime spots quickly coming and going.
for the most part the lakes you listed other than long legged a 50" fish is more of a rarety than the norm with 34-42" the avg and 44-48" a good fish.a couple 50's a season,maybe.not that there aren't or haven't been 50's caught but would i go there specifically to target them,no. great action and nice fish but not the top end.so generally no you wouldn't be reducing avg size of the fish you boat,most likely increase the number of bites.
bigger avg size fish,bigger baits,bigger fish to a certain degree.
more numbers per acre,more competion,leads towards smaller baits a good choice also.and just plain and simple some lakes it is a idiocrycrasy that the fish prefer smaller baits.
done well on predators and squirkos at times but ya they love to chase glide baits,good locators.
when ever you have alot of cold fronts,cooler than avg water temps,less than normal weed cover,and most importantly most of the forage moving out over open water you will get more suspension going on and thats undoubtably what you encountered last season.
tough to fish suspended fish here,lots of water,the breaks ya and at times we have been noticing alot of fish at 18-24' off structure holding to move up at optimum times and those are the off structure fish we tend to target.
good luck!!

[stevestlouis]

Steve,

Thanks for the reply to my post. I’ll pack some larger lures this year and roll the dice. Eagle is one of 3-4 NW Ontario lakes that I believe have the ability to produce a true monster muskie. I’m hoping the larger lures mitigate the amount of 20-25 inch pike on as they are a pain with three trebles moving around. Great work with the forum and best fishing to everyone this season.

Steve S

[Brian Malack]

Steve, before I started fishing Eagle I too spent weeks fishing Indian and Canyon. I also found what you did to be true regarding downsizing of baits. After switching to Eagle, obviously the first thing I did was bring my bag of tricks with me and try it out there. Unfortunately, most smaller presentations I have used have been fairly unproductive for Muskies on Eagle. But fortunately, I can honestly say I have seen more big fish in ONE SPOT on Eagle then I have seen combined on Indian/Canyon ever...so while those lakes can be fun to fish and do have their time and place, I think you are making the right choice.

[stevestlouis]

Brian,

It seems you were in same situation at one time. I kind of fell into Eagle this year as my regular fishing buddy that I go up with to Indian/Canyon just closed on a house and couldn’t make it. Another group I knew had three and were looking for a fourth for a NW Ontario trip. They told me they had booked for Eagle Lake already so I figured, hell yeah – been wanting to try my hand at that lake for many years. I’ve had some magical weeks in Indian/Canyon that have produced 50+ follows a day (granted this is optimal conditions) but, I rarely saw fish over 45 inches. The best we boated was 48 inches two years back trolling. I’ve seen around a dozen fish at the legitimate 50 inch mark (several I hooked and lost) with one gargantuan probably 54-55ish that had my dad soiling himself.

I’ve got some larger baits to toss out on Eagle this year (Jackpots, Grandmas, Suicks, giant Woodchopper etc) I can feel the tendonitis already. I’m expecting this to be similar to Long Legged in that you see fewer muskie follows but the quality being higher on average as both these lakes share many commonalities. Its hard to tell much about a lake fishing for one week. After all we have not control over it being as on week or off one with the bite. I’ll probably wing it without one day of guiding as the economy affects us all. We’ll put our time in casting in trolling and place the odds in our favor the best we can.

A question on Taxidermy – the person I’ll be fishing with up there is hell-bent on stuffing a muskie if he get a 45+. I’m attempting to steer him towards a replicated mount as I’d rather not take a 15 year old fish out of the lake. Do you have any recommendations on good taxidermist in the area, cost? (they go per inch if I recall) – also, outside of quality pictures, you would want the exact length, girth, yes?

Thanks for you time and info as I’m stoked I found this forum.

Steve S

[jhillman17]

well let your buddy know that it's not an option, the length limit on eagle is 54 inches, so unless he catches one over 54, he isn't going to stuff it.

For replicas, yes, you need to get measurements of length, girth, and a photo of the markings, so they can make it as exact of a duplicate as possible. I'm not sure what replica's cost these days, but two names I hear all the time are Fittante and Lax reproductions.

http://www.fittantereplicas.com/

http://www.laxreproductions.com/

and to educate your buddy....

http://www.esoxhunter.com/Mounts.php

[DanR]

Wow!!! Anyone who kills an Eagle Lake musky needs to fish somewhere other than Eagle Lake. I certainly hope you aren't staying at AML because I'm pretty sure Steve & the guides won't like it if a guest takes a legal. Sorry, but that's the way I see it too! Magnificent animals, why would someone want to kill it? Keep the genetics in the lake, and give someone else the chance to experience the thrill of a fishing lifetime.

They need to be 54" to keep anyway (if you have the proper license). Last year, I *could* have kept my 54", but the thought NEVER crossed my mind. In fact, all I could think of was getting her back in the water as quickly as possible after a great fight. I almost bow in honor to that great fish. It wasn't til someone mentioned to me later back home that I could have kept it that I thought, "Holy cr@p, that's right. That WAS a legal musky." If I can let a giant one go, so can everyone else.

Man, I'm kind of angry and sad by this, someone going to the great Eagle Lake with the intent to kill. No offense, but your friend doesn't deserve to be in the presence of the greatness of the Eagle Lake Musky fishery.

What a joke.

-Dan

[DanR]

I'm not sure what replica's cost these days, but two names I hear all the time are Fittante and Lax reproductions.
About $12-13/inch. By the time you get done with shipping, you're looking at about 700-$750 for fish in the widely recognized trophy range of 50-54". It's money well spent, and most come with a lifetime guarantee.

-Dan

[stevestlouis]

I agree with the reply post in that you shouldn’t take a trophy out the waters. Everything I’ve read on replicated mounts shows they look just as good and last much longer given humidity and other factors. Through all the years I’ve been up we have never kept a muskie (this will be my 20th). Anytime I see a broche with someone standing on the dock with a 50 incher I think, ‘well that one is no longer available’. For many avid fisherman its as easy choice to place the fish back as you don’t want to deplete your fishery – give someone else the chance to catch a trophy. There is a reason we travel to NW Ontario instead of WI or MN.

Dan, Brian and Steve, thanks for your info. I’ll post how we did in ten days or so.

Steve S

[Steve Herbeck]

steve s,
i appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
we have a camp policy of;
no over slot fish kept unless accidental death which means;
walleyes over 18"
pike over 27.5 "
trout over 6# or 24"
bass-none
muskies none unless potential world record

i have fished eagle for over 25yrs and believe me when i say the good ole days of fishing are not 20-25 yrs ago they are NOW AND UPCOMING.
with intelligent size and slot limits and possesion limits,and above all the general attitude of todays fishermen with a much more c/r attitude regarding trophy fish in favour of repos and releasing over the slot fish and keeping another under the slot instead for eating the fishery and it's future for everyone and thier kids,grand kids, etc is very bright.
many resorts have now adopted the same guide lines with respect not only for thier future business wise but more importantly the respource , now if all would especially one in portage bay..... it would help even more.

good luck!!
steve
aml

[DanR]

I agree with the reply post in that you shouldn’t take a trophy out the waters. Everything I’ve read on replicated mounts shows they look just as good and last much longer given humidity and other factors. Through all the years I’ve been up we have never kept a muskie (this will be my 20th). Anytime I see a broche with someone standing on the dock with a 50 incher I think, ‘well that one is no longer available’. For many avid fisherman its as easy choice to place the fish back as you don’t want to deplete your fishery – give someone else the chance to catch a trophy. There is a reason we travel to NW Ontario instead of WI or MN.

Dan, Brian and Steve, thanks for your info. I’ll post how we did in ten days or so.

Steve S
I'm really glad you see it that way, and you seem like a reasonable and intelligent guy. I hope you are able to convince your friend(s) NOT to kill any Musky on Eagle Lake over 54". It would really be a tragedy. Thanks.

I've also released a few 20+lb pike back into Eagle Lake, and have a replica of one of them. Even though pike is a species that is "looked down on" (when compared to Musky, Trout, Smallies, and Walleye) by most, as far as I'm concerned...ANY big fish of any species should be released. A big fish is a rarity to be respected. And I'll tell you what, that 42" Fall pike I got a few years ago would give any Musky fisherman a run for his money as far as the battle is concerned. Big pike are awesome fighters (little ones, not so much :) ).

-Dan

[DanR]

bass-none
Yep. I had no idea until you mentioned it that Smallies up there only grow ~ 1" per year. So when someone fillets a 14" Smallie, they're killing a 14 year old fish!!!

Sad story. Was at a lake and was told this story recently. There was a 2.5lb or so Smallie that used to hang around a dock. The little kids in camp would catch it and release it every so often. It was THE big fish the kids would get excited to catch when they would see it (cause they'd usually only be catching little panfish all day). This smallie was almost like the "camp pet". A month or so ago, some guy was coming in and saw the fish by he dock. He purposely caught it, filleted it & ate it!!!

Also recently saw something that looked like it was lifted from 50 years ago. Some older fellas came in with a stringer of bass and pike. I swear they had to be over the limits by 2x, and for sure one of the pike was in the slot. I really think it was ignorance, and they just figured they could keep any fish they caught (like the old days).

It's people's right to keep anything within the limits and regulations of the Ontario MNR. But once again, AML is ahead of everyone else by encouraging people to release whenever possible/reasonable. It is this kind of thinking that makes Eagle Lake THE premiere trophy fishing destination in Canada for all species.

-Dan

[Steve S WI]

and to educate your buddy....

jhillman17 you are SO correct!

stevestlouis if your buddy is so set at stuffing a 45 incher quite frankly I hope he does not fish ANY lakes I fish!! Like jhillman17 said the legal size is 54 on Eagle. With that said I would not want your buddy even to handle a fish of any size to release if that is his/her thought process. Stuffing a fish I think is so "old school" with the replicas nowadays. A true musky/fishing hunter needs to let them go to let them grow! Just my thoughts but I am not a camp owner but I think most would say that releasing and getting a replica is the way to go. Many fisherman at Eagle, including myself, would not even keep or have released a legal Eagle musky just for the fact of the trophy potential in the future. Your buddy old or young needs to realize the precious resource that we have. Yea, it is just a fish but still rare at any rate with the increased pressure from many factors.

[DanR]

Folks, Steve S is being modest here. He didn't mention that he also released a GIANT 55.5", 50+lb Musky back in 2005. Again, another example like mine of, "If he can do it, why can't you?"

Steve, I can still vividly remember when you and your Dad came in that day. It was a pleasure being in camp. Your Dad's eyeballs were still popping out if his head even a few hours later; he was in disbelief like, "Did this really happen?". HAHAHAHA.

Is Trevor casting yet? ;)

-Dan

[Bill Hedden]

This thread has done a great job of highlighting how important it is to release all muskies back into the lake, and how passionate AML fishermen are about doing that. It probably bears mentioning here that releasing a fish isn't very effective in preserving the future of the fishery, nor is it worthy of these wonderful animals, if you hurt the fish handling it. Sure, a fish might inhale a lure into its gills and there is nothing you can do about that except to stay on shore; but thinking realistically about how it would ruin your day or entire trip if you couldn't revive one of these beautiful creatures because you had injured it during the release makes it clear that we all need to spend time and money making sure that we are ready to deal with a big, intimidating fish in the net. You really shouldn't be casting for them unless somebody in your boat is up to that task. That is easier said than done if your net is too small and the fish is crammed in there in a bend and you can't keep it comfortably in the water while unhooking it. You are also in trouble if you don't have really good bolt cutters and/or a jaw spreader and you are looking at just the tips of a bucktail sticking out of the clenched, toothy jaws of a big musky. Basically, you need a good tool kit easily at hand, and that begins with a good net that allows you and the fish to calm down and breathe in preparation for the release. As mentioned, you need bolt cutters that will easily cut the hooks when needed and long nosed pliers. Gloves if they make you feel better. If you haven't done much of it before, look closely at the big musky mounts in the AML lodge and imagine that you are trying to get the hooks out of those jaws without hurting the fish or yourself. It helps you prepare yourself mentally. Finally, and I may get in trouble here, consider releasing the fish without hoisting it up by the gill covers for a photo. No matter how much you try to support the body with your other hand, that is incredibly stressful for a fish, and the bigger they are the more stressful it is. Take a photo of it in the water while you are gently stabilizing it until it is ready to swim off. I've seen some great images where the photographer took a head-on shot of a fish in that position. Seeing them swim off strong and angry and minimally hurt is the happy completion of the whole process.

Bill Hedden

[DanR]

Excellent post Bill!! As far as equipment for proper release goes, I would say it really comes down to:
* Frabill Power Catch Big Game or Big Kahuna. The Big Game is more than big enough (the Big Kahuna is bigger yet), and is better for little guys like me and Herbie so we can actually reach in the net with our little arms to get the fish out. :) Obviously, any other net from another manufacturer of similar size is suitable.

*Hook Cutters. Hands down the best is the Knipex. They can cut hooks like a warm knife through butter. My buddy and I always have two in the boat (we each own one). I also, for the big trolling lures, have this monster two hand high leverage bolt cutter (you could probably cut a 1/4" thick screw with it). You cannot fish at night on Eagle, but at other lakes in the dark (even with a headlight) it allows you to cut through the entire shaft of the hook easily. That way, you can "free" the fish quickly in the net & clear the lure and the other hooks. Then you take the knipex out, and get the rest of the hook. You can never have enough hook cutters. Horror story. Back in my LOTW days in the late 90s (before I found Eagle and AML :) ), the guide got hooked in the hand really bad (and was attached to a very angry 40"er). The guides hook cutters were dropped in the lake in the scramble when the fish thrashed. My Dad and I pulled out our old hook cutters from our Wisconsin days (they were roughly 10+ years old from when we had our cottage up there in the 80's). The cutters were rusted out, and literally shattered when we tried to cut the hook. We had to pull the whole fish and net into the bottom of the boat to free the fish from the guide. Then motored over to another musky boat to free the lure from the guides hand. 2-3 hook cutters in the boat at a minimum!!

*11"+ Pliers. Much better for taking hooks out.

*XL Baker mouth spreaders

My biggest "worry" is not necessarily the hooks in the fish's mouth getting into me. Rather, sometimes the lure comes off/out in the net, but the lure is all rolled up and tangled in the netting. Don't grab the lure with your hand!!! When the fish in the water in the bottom of the net thrashes and swings the net... the hooks in the lure in your hand WILL go into your hands!!! So be careful!!

Good luck everyone, and be safe.

-Dan

[bigghe]

<<but the lure is all rolled up and tangled in the netting. Don't grab the lure with your hand!!! When the fish in the water in the bottom of the net thrashes and swings the net... the hooks in the lure in your hand WILL go into your hands!!! So be careful!!>>

Very sound advice Danr...

This happened to me last year at Musky Point with a 44". I learned this lesson the hard way. I ended up getting hooked thru the thumb and the fish was re-hooked. Luckily knipex freed me from the fish... got the photo (hook still in the thumb). Released the fish and the hook was pulled thru the other side. Fished for another hour or so (hitting spots near AML) and had a nice size ~40" NP on but lost it. Ended up going back to our cabin for a few drinks. As the voice of reason, my wife took me to Dryden to get a doctor evaluation and a tetanus shot. $250 out of pocket and had to submit it to insurance. It's a good story but one that I do not want to go thru again.

I'm not a guest of the AML... my family has a private cabin near another resort. I have a lot of respect for Herbie and AML (although I have not met him) and MOST of the other resorts on Eagle. This forum is a great way to share information and learn new things. A big thanks for Herbie for supporting it.

[DanR]

This happened to me last year at Musky Point with a 44".
There are muskys on Musky Point? :) In all my years of fishing Eagle...I have yet to ever see a fish there!!! :confused: Oh, I've seen flash bulbs going off and other people holding up fish for a picture as we've been driving by. But I've never even had a follow there in roughly 8 years.

[stevestlouis]

It seems the post I had became wayward. As mentioned I’d give you all the word on how my first Eagle lake adventure went. It turns out we were only up there for 3.5 days as one of the guy’s grandpas died. Needless to say we cut the trip short so he could attend the funeral. I’ll share a few side notes of the trip as it was funny in retrospect now even though it was eerie when it happened. My buddy, which I inquired for the (replicated) mount got tired each day casting for muskies. Not sure why as I gave him smaller lures to keep that from happening. He refused to troll after tiring and insisted on jigging for muskie with walleye gear. Ironically he had a 45’’ on the end at the ‘Musky Point’ the first morning (casting). Two of the guys weren’t speaking to each other after news of the trip being truncated from the passing. I tossed one of them in my boat to avoid tension since ‘hell’ we are on vacation. That night he lost a low 40s’’ on a figure eight.

All in all, Eagle Lake had tons of water and many quality muskie areas. A few spot I hit I was amassed one didn’t come out for a look. Its hard to tell much about a lake from 3.5 days of fishing. As you guys mentioned before, the weed growth was sparse in many areas. For never fishing the lake and without a guide we were successful. Two on/lost in the low to mid 40s and a several in the mid 40s follow. I caught the only muskie of the trip on a 5# mepps wasting time for the wind to drop to hit an evening spot. That little guy was 25’’ or so. A guide is a must for a huge lake like that if never fished before. Money was tight so I had make do. I hoping my regular muskie fishing buddy comes up next year as this year felt like the comedy of errors.