It's official - no more slot limit

[The Bait Shop Guy]

I was just emailed this link. Starting with the 2010 season, there will no longer be a 23 inch slot limit on the walleyes of Little Bay de Noc http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/FO-215.10_289775_7.pdf

[RudyG]

Ice fishermen should pay attention to the date that it goes in Effect: April 1, 2010.

Not sure how the creel survey is a factor in deciding when fisherman were only allowed to keep 1 over 23.. the % prior to the slot limit was 17.. after the limit was in effect it was 14.. so are they saying that fishermen weren't changing the way they kept fish or that keeping only 1 still produced a 14% ratio? Allowing more to be kept should increase the %... right? Just curious?

[jigginfins]

In my personal opinion. THAT REALLY SUCKS!!


Thats about it.

Good luck to everyone still fishing and hunting.

[CrankYanker]

I think we need a poll to see who agrees and disagrees!!!
Bait shop guy?

[The Bait Shop Guy]

Well, we already had a poll back in January when we first heard about this proposal http://www.outdoors911.com/reports/showthread.php?t=6449 The vast majority of people who participated were in favor of keeping the slot. No point in taking another poll - it's a done deal. Then Fisheries biologist Mike Herman (now retired,) answered most all comments at the time. Check pages 16 and 15 in the archives if you'd like to review.

[Mike P]

So Chris, if in fact most people , in your unscientific pole, were in favor of the slot, how come the people [us] were over ruled ? I mean I thought the system [aka government] was supposed to be working for what we, the people want. maybe you could shed some light on how this came to pass, or better yet an explanation from the DNR would explain just how they came to the decision . Is the slot a waste of time ? Does it do any good? Why does it NEED to be changed ? Especially with all the illegal netting thats been done on the bay which of course doesnt abide by ANY slot Waiting for an answer...

[The Bait Shop Guy]

Basically, the walleye population of the bay is quite large and healthy (according to the DNR's figures,) and there is no biological reason for keeping the slot in place. Again, all that information is available in the older posts, you just have to do a little digging.

It's all on us, now. Just because you CAN keep 5 overs next season, doesn't mean you HAVE to. I'd like to think that in this day and age, the majority of good fishermen already practice selective harvest voluntarily, and will continue to do so.

[Fastcat]

Has this been signed? I do not see a signature of Humphries or date for that matter. I realize this is the order but I don't see a signature for her like there is for the ones that made the recommendation. I also like this part
"The LBDN regulation proposal feedback been mixed and some social concerns still remain within the local angling community." So in other words to hell with the ones that live there, we listened to you but don't give a S**t. Typical for Michigan now days.

[Lund21]

Not happy about this, but I'll echo BSG...No need o keep Bi$$chin about it, Practice selective harvest and encourage others to do the same. CPR caught on this way and selective harvest can as well. Back n the water tonight for the next 6 days!! Love this time of year. All be safe

[CaptainKenLee]

DNR....does officially stand for "DO NOTHING RIGHT".

I wrote letters to each of the Natural Resources Commission members over two months ago about the issue...still no reply from any of them! There is absolutely no accountability anymore from our people in charge...very frustrating!


Over 90% of people surveyed supported the slot...apparently doesn't matter!

Illegal netting operations uncovered...apparently doesn't matter!

We can't feed deer in a harsh winter, but wolves can eat as many as they want...apparently doesn't matter!

Get it people...we don't matter, they don't work for US anymore!

[dennzo]

Lansing, Washington, D.C., they don't care what we want!!! Depending on which poll you see, between 52-56% of America doesn't want Universal Health Care either, but it appears we're gettin it anyway!!?? That's why I'm advocating a movement for next year called V.O.I.C.E. 2010, Vote Out Incumbent Congress People Everywhere. I don't care who they are, what they have done, send em ALL packin next year. If they are there now, send em home with their lifetime healthcare(which is a 1000 times better than what they are voting on for us), and their fat pension. Hardly sounds like voting em out is even punishment since they are set for life anyway!

[s_h_bogeyman]

When the law enforcement division says it doesn't have a problem with it, that generally means it's going happen. It's going to be easier for them. Now there won't be any issues as to where you launch and land your boat or if you have more than one fish over 23". It's like a few years ago when there were two different size limits on bass, 12" in the great lakes and 14" inland. It became an enforcement nightmare. Hopefully, the game wardens can now concentrate on the illegal netting and poaching that is a problem in the bays.

[hook em and cook em]

How many people here go out fishing on the bay and have to sort through fish over 23 inches to get some eaters? Get real. You people are acting like it is the end of the world because of this. I have fished a lot on the bay over the years. It isnt often that these larger fish are caught by most anglers in bay de noc (unless you go south of the existing boundry). Some will mention the fall fishing and the larger fish, but how many people actually go out there in the high winds and cold temps to fish this time of year? Is there a study that shows positive results of having the slot restriction in place? Has it done any good, or is it psychological? In my opinion, this restriction being lifted wont make any difference. For the most part these larger fish leave the designated area after they spawn anyway. Evidence of this is obvious when we look at where the tournament fishermen go when money is on the line. Dont see too many of those guys hanging out in the slot limit area to catch hogs.

[Mike P]

How many people have to sort through 23 inchers to get some eaters?

Well you have a point there and yeah a lot of bigger fish are caught south of the designated area , your right.

I think that your missing the point of the slot and as any of us who have fished the Bay for years [ as in 40 speaking for myself] I think the slot was designed to keep the fish hogs in line. By that I mean the guys who set up a shanty and hammer bigger fish on their pre spawn areas, and which I have to believe ice fisherman can take a lot of bigger fish. not to mention people fishing at all times of year who figure "If we don't take em someone else will '. A very antiquated view in todays sophisticated array of fishing advances . Who 20 years ago had a gps to return to within feet of the same spot time and time again or relate those coordinates to their buddies.

Comparing fishing in the Bay to what I experienced 30 or 40 years ago , lets take Northerns for example . It was nothing to take numerous fish in the 7 to 12 lb range daily when I used to fish the Bay . Thats not true anymore. I have to think thats because too many guys kept too many fish. You could say that its because of the change in the aquatic enviroment, invasive species etc. but over the years but I still believe overharvest and fish hogs had a detrimental overall effect on the Northern population in the Bay

So I think a lot of guys and supposedly the majority, according to the polls mentioned above want to keep the fish hogs in check. I see it at my place with guys keeping EVERYTHING they catch. Undersized perch , snake northerns , 7,8,9 lb walleyes and even though we try to educate these guys about CAtch & Release and how IMPORTANT it is, some guys the mindset is we paid for our trip and we are going to take them otherwise someone else will. Not the brightest candles on the cake and it suports A self defeating attitude long term, just like the Northern population dwindled noticably over the years

So you are right on with what you wrote above , but I think Guys like the idea of this unique resource being protected and after all whats neat about the Bays is that the thrill is that you can catch a real trophy fish here and most guys want to keep that to be the norm, and not take a chance on screwing that up. If it ain't broke don't fix it !!!!

Still would like to know from the horses mouth[DNR] why they went against what most of us would like and tell us exactley what scientific evidence they used to change what works. I mean when guides who intimatley know these waters and fish em almost everyday during the season are in favor of the slot, how the heck can you discount their experience and knowedge of this fishery and have some desk jockey tell you things should be otherwise, Just not good common sense , you think ! Please post an answer here DNR... What do you know that we don't

[N2danight]

From a town mayor to the guy that sits in the White House, less than 5,000 figureheads run what we refer to as The United States of America. If you look at the government level (Congress, House, Senate etc.), knock that down to 635 people.

The people will always have the power. Unfortunately, we lack the ability to unify and make it really count. Unity is power. We don't need to be highly intelligent and know the tax codes, or any governing laws in great detail. The only thing that we need to know is what we want as a people. It's known as The Will of The People. If your state or local government representatives can't deliver on the will of its people, you know the most important thing: "Somebody's got to go"!

Votes counts. As a people, we will never take the time to venture down the rabbit hole and get the names of the individuals that had the opinion polls squarely in their hands (The Will of The People) and summarily dismissed it. Once you identify them, you make your sentiment known the next time that their name appears on a ballot.

We The People need to govern ourselves first, and then we can govern the the government in ensuring that it reflects what we want. In today's world, everyone acknowledges that government does what it wants. At least until election years (but again, that's a small window to talk out of the side of your neck). You truly can make a difference but it's just too much work right?

Moving forward, remember who didn't respond and let them experience your sentiment during election years. Until then, there are no limits on walleye size in Little Bay De Noc and that's a foregone conclusion now. I also believe that the vast majority of fishermen that do not have self-esteem issues or family needs, will continue to catch, photo and release.

God bless you, and God bless The United States of America.

Regards,

The guy that drove 750 miles, fished six days, and caught one fish on his annual trip. Win some, lose some!

[jtourangeau]

It truly is a sad sad day and I'm sure some do need to cry.It seems every time they ask''how can we help?'' they end up doing the opposite.It sucks that they also release this info right before the holidays in the mid of firearm season.And no...I am not done!

[springfield]

I agree with Capt Ken Lee, it seems the DNR are no longer working for the people. I think they are destroying our fishing & hunting statewide.

[DooFighter]

...The people will always have the power. Unfortunately, we lack the ability to unify and make it really count. Unity is power.

If unity is power and we cannot unite, how do we have the power? It's a loaded question, we do NOT have the power, imo. There is a definite disconnect between our government and the people. The reason is that the ultra rich are pulling the strings on the government puppets. They could care less what we think, we are not lining their pockets. The lobbyists and special interests write the bills these clowns (congress) vote in. Most of them have not or cannot read the entire bills, hundreds or even thousands of pages of legal mumbo jumbo to hide the perpetuation of the few controlling the masses. This country is going south, getting fat and lazy and eventually the sht will hit the fan.

Wow, that has nothing to do with walleyes. Sorry, rant off.

P.S. if you want to really turn into a pessimist, read "The Creature from Jekyll Island"

[jtourangeau]

This has to be turned over.There is a reason why people come to this site.It is the reputation of this fishery.The integrity of this fishery.The slot limit in no way has ever harmed the bay.In these times with all the netting and foul play,I for one... cannot see how removing the slot will help Michigan...Escanaba,Gladstone,Kipling,or Delta Co.

[Mike P]

Perfectly put JT !

[walleye 1st]

Its simple we the men and women that fish need to protect the fishery. take what you can eat and leave the rest for another day. i myself have gone out and caught 30 fish in one day down south and released everyone i caught. Why? cause i enjoy fishing and also eating but if i don"t need the fillets i don't keep them... We the sportsman need to protect the resource, so please keep selectively. Together we can protect the fishery. And as for hunting KILL THE WOLVES the 3s's shoot shovel shut up.. I have some friends that had a trail cam on a wolf den july through sept. in that time there was pics. of 29 deer being dragged in the den.. Thats just one den you can do the math..

[Kevin Lee]

I agree that there may not be any "biological reason" for keeping the slot limit. But at the same time, I have never heard the DNR say that the slot limit does any "biological" harm either. To me, if the DNR has no scientific evidence of harm done by the slot limit, and the people they work for want it kept, IT SHOULD BE KEPT! Furthermore, with our biologist's pending retirement, I think he should have done what judges sometimes do, excuse himself from the issue. It should have been left up to whomever replaces him as he will be the one to deal with these issues in the future. Both of our former biologists George Madison and Jerry Peterson, used to get out from behind the desk and stop in to the baitshops and the like to get a feel for what was going on and discuss the fishery. To my knowledge, this no longer happens. Personally, I think the DNR should be sued for "breach of contract" with the people. The illegal gill netting certainly should have been a consideration before doing away with the slot limit. I think more time should have been taken to fully see what kind of impact (or lack of impact) it has had on the fishery. I know Jerry Peterson originally agreed with dropping the slot limit, but he changed his opinion after the illegal netting came to light. According to what the DNR has said in the local paper, they feel that as many as 72,000 pounds of walleye were taken over a 5 year period. If that's the case, and you use a 5 pound average size (since I was told the netters used large mesh nets and only caught big fish) it would equal 14,400 fish. Keep that figure in mind. Troy Zorn is currently doing a survey of the fish populations on the bays http://thecountypress.mihomepaper.com/news/2009-11-11/Sports/DNR_research_targets_better_understanding_of_fishe .html . Using his numbers, that means the netters pretty much wiped out the same number of fish that spawn in the Cedar and Escanaba Rivers. Mr. Zorn stated that the the Cedar River run was 8500 fish in 2005, with the Escanaba River run at 8400 fish in 2008. He also states the Rapid River had a good run in 2009. Perhaps he has not seen what a good run in the Rapid River looks like because the 2009 run was pathetic! Especially when compared to runs seen in 2005 and earlier. But...if a person has not observed a big run, they have nothing for comparison, so I do not hold this against Mr. Zorn. It's possible the rough winter/spring had a major effect on the spawning runs, but only more time could show whether that was the case or not. The DNR always looks to their data to back up their position. But it's all in how you present that data. Here is an example of what I mean--You are 50 times more likely to get lung cancer if you smoke two packs of cigarettes a day. But did you know only 10% of smokers get lung cancer? In previous posts the DNR has stated they estimate the population of walleye in Little Bay de Noc to be 450,000 . I have heard that this estimate was based on an unproven model. If I'm wrong about that, I apologize. Still, it's upsetting to think the DNR would drop the slot limit until some time had passed to see exactly what effect (if any) the netters may have had. Like I said, I have never heard the DNR say that the slot limit has a negative effect on the fishery, so why not take a wait and see attitude. In other words, "play it safe". Especially since a 28-30 inch fish is about 16-18 years old if I remember correctly. I had a 30 inch fish aged some years ago and I think it was 17 years old. Here is another reason I question any numbers the Fisheries Division throws out http://www.michiganoutdoornews.com/articles/2009/11/26/top_news/news02.txt . Dropping the slot limit has made me lose a lot of respect for some in the DNR. Essentially, no accountability. I think some major changes need to be made like having the Natural Resources Commision be elected by the people in their respective districts. NOT POLITICAL APPOINTEES. Their sole job should be to represent the people in their district. Which obviously doesn't happen now! In all the charters my brother has done, he has never had a single client complain about having to release a fish over 23 inches. In fact, many have said they wished they had the same regulations on their home waters. I'm sure most folks would love to abolish as many regulations as possible (me included) in this over regulated world we live in. But here you had a regulation that a clear majority felt good about and I think to some extent took pride in. With the state that this country is in right now, what's wrong with that???

"He who dismisses the will of the majority, may also lose the respect of the majority"
Kevin Lee

[Eyegetr]

The people involved in cleaning the bay out of fish and getting away with it do not follow the slot! So in reality all the fish we the sportspeople protect are the same fish they target. This state must change the people who are suppossed to be working for us or hunting and fishing as we know it will be history!

One Sportsmen who has had enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[springfield]

If it aint broke, dont fix it applys here. You folks had a great fishery up there with the way things were (without the netting issue) so why change it? I see no reason to make a change, I can see if over population was depleteing the bait fish, but I've seen clouds of them this fall when out myself, so I dont think that is a proplem. I for one wish we (the People) could get a vote or say so on these issue's and I for one will contribute to the Law Suit fund. I hope everyone who can afford it does so also.

Our deer season was a complete bust down here (NLP)and still they say we were only down slitey, what a crock! I bet 70% atleast and maybe higher. I know lots of people who never saw a deer. Just now they say we may have lost some to winter kill HA HA! you think!! lets give out some more Doe permits so we can kill off our only hope in the future.

I'm Done!!!

[schmutzomatic 5000]

I for one live in Menominee. We were not under the slot regulation but still release the big older fish to insure our future. Nothing bugs me more(well maybe leaving crap on the ice) than sitting on the ice and seeing some kid with five nice pre-spawned females die on the ice before they get a chance to drop. I get a great feeling in spring letting a 30+ eye go to spawn another day. As stated previous "If it aint broke don't fix it" We have alot of bigger problems out their to worry about than messing with something that doesn't need attention. If any attention was needed regarding the slot in my opinion it could have been expanding the slot area... It just makes good sence...

[Mike P]

OK, so I've read all these posts, but I have two questions .

#1 Why does the DNR want to remove the slot ?

I mean just what is their reasoning and why do they now think after all these years of having a slot that think this is positive and a necessary move ?

#2 Just how will removing the slot now enhance the fishery ?

Maybe someone could explain the reasoning from the DNR. I would like a simple answer. I'm lost...

[hook em and cook em]

Maybe those large mesh gill nets had a little something to do with the formulation of the new codes. The guys that were netting those fish were taking fish between 4 and 8 pounds a piece. The DNR probably figured it was better to let the license holders take them, than allow a bunch of 1/16th indians go rape the bay and face no consequence.

[RudyG]

Just going back to my original post in this thread... From what I can gather, reading the "proclamation", it appears to me, the DNR feels that the slot hasnt changed the catch ratio of fish in the slot. Therefore.. they feel.. it is an unecessary regulation.

I'm NOT saying this is correct.. or that I agree with it.. just saying that this "seems" to be what they are saying. Funny thing is... Do a creel survey in an area with a slot limit and ask how many eyes the guy caught over 23".. I promise you, if he has more than 1, he isnt going to tell you.

I just cant understand people complaining of how "they wish fishing was like it used to be".. and then in the same breath say.. "the DNR needs to keep things the way they are". If fishing used to be better.. then shouldnt regulations be like they were when "fishing was better"?

Understand .. I wasnt around when "fishing was better".. I really dont think I have been fishing the bay long enough to form an opinion on that, or the slot limit. I do know that people who want to have their cake and eat it too, often end up with nothing.

[corby]

DNR....does officially stand for "DO NOTHING RIGHT".

I wrote letters to each of the Natural Resources Commission members over two months ago about the issue...still no reply from any of them! There is absolutely no accountability anymore from our people in charge...very frustrating!


Over 90% of people surveyed supported the slot...apparently doesn't matter!

Illegal netting operations uncovered...apparently doesn't matter!

We can't feed deer in a harsh winter, but wolves can eat as many as they want...apparently doesn't matter!

Get it people...we don't matter, they don't work for US anymore!

IT TOO BAD THESE AREN'T ELECTED POSITIONS!!!! THEY WOULD ALL BE GONE!!!!