Fishing gurus, experts, or just hacks like me???

[fishwizard]

Well with the thoughts of fishing seasons in the North approaching and opening soon, I thought I’d throw out some discussion points.

In many past weeks fishing LOTW, there are often times where it seems like certain areas can run hot and cold. Not specific spots mind you, but whole areas like the Windigos, Johnston Passage, South End of Tug, The Narrows, etc., etc. Do you agree, think, and/or believe that this is true and does happen, or is it merely an observational coincidence.

If you think it does happen, than what explanation do you offer to explain this phenomena?

I think it does happen, and there the obvious times where the bloom, wind, and/or water clarity are obviously the culprits, but there are plenty of other times that those indicators simply don’t explain the differences in fish activity. There are always days, where you make a plan to hit an area and at the end of the day you are left scratching your head, while other guys went to some other area and were all over fish, and vice-versa. Sometimes you can see what is going on, when it’s obvious, and you jump to another section of the lake to salvage what’s left of the day. Sometimes even that doesn’t work.

Is it just timing? Is it the alignment of the stars?

I know most of this discussion is about the same as long-range weather prediction in terms of its probable usefulness, but I can’t help musing about it.

What make you decide to jump from an area or plan? How long will you stick it out if things aren’t working, but seem like they should be? Is it just a feeling, or do you put yourself on a clock? Is it just about finding the right approach or key that will unlock an area? Thoughts?

Ryan

[dpear]

From one hack to another,i suspect its a combo of syzygy and water movement in general.Subject always of course to the 'Big Fish Theory'.
(http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Big_Fish_Theory).

[dougj@wiktel.com]

If I could figure that out I'd be a guide!

Doug Johnson

[fishwizard]

Ok, so I'm not saying what are the answers, per say, but what are some ideas? Maybe if i start with just the basic question.

Do hot and cold areas really exist, or just a lucky connection on the spots in that area you happen to hit that day?

Thanks, Dick. That should open up a lot of doors for me.

[dougj@wiktel.com]

I don't really think there are hot areas, or cold areas unless they are effected by something like an algae bloom. What happens from one hour to the next is very hard to predict.

You may go through an area, and get nothing, an hour later someone else goes through the same area and does well. Seen it many times.

There's no magic.

Doug Johnson

[musky3]

I think certain areas are Hot because of the weed growth...this is good info here LOL... Every year I will fish a spot area that has really nice weeds and the next year all excited to get there and bam no weeds flat as a board. I know last years weeds will probably be gone due to those rusty's. When will those weeds come back? Do the rusty crayfish die after all the weeds are gone?

[dpear]

T,I think it's anyones guess on the crayfish.Whats amazing is that if bass can't control them on the Woods,hard to believe they can be controlled naturally anywhere.
http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/ais/rustycrayfish_invader

F Whiz,Did you conduct the experiment in the materials cited?Results from that will be as helpful as most speculation here.After that experiment,no harm in doing more experiments on the water on your own.
There is only one true source for the answers you seek-the musky gods.Unfortunately they talk only to me and,to be honest,I haven't had any meaningful communication with them since I quit drinking.

[musky1969]

Tim, The funny thing with the weeds is if they are gone I have found out that the fish still just use the sand there are bays that have no more weeds but still hold fish. And the hot area always seems to be the area we are not in .lol
Darren

[Ed Spoerl]

As someone that would come up for a few weeks each summer for about 12 years, I really never took the time to ask why fish related to an area or spot one year and then gone the next. Too busy getting on a pattern.

Now that I have had a couple full summers on the woods I have noted a couple interesting things.

Definitely a migration takes place in some areas where the fish pack moves towards the open water. You can kind of follow the pack in their progression.

Some spots can be terrible during the day and crazy good late in the day and evening.

Water temp is a big player on mid lake rock spots.

Wind direction is a big player on mid lake rock spots.

[Guru57]

Speaking of rustys, one thing we noticed last year when we were up walleye fishing was that the bite was getting a little tough and people were just trying different things and one guy had a package of Powerbait Crawfish that he got on the Wal-Mart clearance pile and within minutes he was catching more and bigger fish than the rest of us combined. I thought it was a fluke but he just kept catching fish. I have added a few packs to my arsenal for this year as a result.

[Sully]

My philosophy is simple...fish as far away from DP as possible...that catfish stink bait aroma is a killer.:eek:

[Sully]

Having fished with DP must have been this cartoonists insperation.

[dougj@wiktel.com]

Here's another thought, and I find this at times. If you are going though what you think is a killer area and not having much action, it may well be that you are right behind someone else (Pearson?). Sometimes this happens and it will seem like the fish are off in an area, but that's because they where just caught. If you are running into a lot of fishing pressure in an area it doesn't hurt to move a little.

Over all (45 years of trying it) I don't think I've ever seem an area that was slow and another area that was hot on the same day. However, I've seen lots of areas that are effected by fishing pressure, or at times bad water conditions (muddy/algae, etc). Then it's time to look else where.

Doug Johnson

[jimmyb]

Gotta love all the great info you get on Frank's BS (Bay Store) Outdoor Reports forum. Here's my hackers 2 cents worth.

Predictability is always a tough subject. But... In the early part of the year it goes without saying that for the most part, weeds play probably the most important role in finding fish.
When it comes to weeds one thing I notice that does come into play quite a bit and varies from year to year, spot to spot, hour by hour is how current effects them. Not only where the weeds are growing and how fast, but what they're like under the surface. How you'll fish a spot and notice the weeds that were so thick and up near the surface last night you could barely get through them with your 300# of thrust trolling mtr, yet this AM they are now lying down so much you don't even know they are there.

The problem is there are so many things that effect current. The weather, not only where you are but several miles away. Wind direction, and even wether or not they're letting in or out water, etc. etc. I hate to admit it but Dick's right. Probably one of the best ways to predict current is "Syzygy".

[lambeau]

you see the same thing around here where the fish will be absent on one lake while a hot bite is going on another lake just a few miles away. since the Woods is a "lake of lakes" might it be a version of the same phenomenon? that doesn't do anything to explain the cause, but it might suggest approaches.

when approaching that issue around here, people will "lake hop" until finding somewhere the fish are active. once those fish are found, it's often true that other lakes nearby with similar characteristics are also going.

if we have the luxury of multiple boats on a trip, we like to plan out a coordinated approach: each boat fishing different kinds of structure or different kinds of water to get more information more quickly. it's a version of "lake-hopping" on a big lake like the Woods. and rather than fishing the same kinds of structure over and over waiting for the fish to show up where we're fishing ("you will eat a bucktail on shallow rocks or else!"), we also plan out a run for each boat that forces us to fish different kinds of structure, depth, and water during the day - especially the first couple days of a trip. by sharing info, once someone's on fish the other boats can seek out similar areas and pick up the pattern.

[dpear]

Mike I like that 'lake within a lake' concept and once upon a time actually gave a seminar in your State on that subject.Will comment in a paragraph or two but first I see Mr Sully has been active since my last visit so a brief comment on that first.
Sully I love ya man but these last posts confirm the validity of 'string theories' and the concept of 'parallel universes'.(I hope the few friends you have will do a search on those cause undoubtedly it would lead to a better understanding of you).No doubt you are in or from a dimension or universe the rest of us can't access.
Mike my earlier thoughts and feelings on this arose out of my travels from one part of the lake to another within a day or a few days-finding some areas productive,others not FOR ME.This lake is not only large but many parts are significantly different from others.For instance contrast the 'trout water'(Whitefish or Clearwater Bays for example)from say other Meso parts.Differences in temps,depth,fertility,water clarity,weed growth and on and on are very significant.
Then consider geography a bit.Small bays vs large open tracts;deep underwater ravines and narrow necks/channels often running for miles vs massive shallow flats;etc.
Then throw a number of inflows into the lake and a massive natural water movement generally south to north in opposition to massive wind induced water movement often prevailing from the west and north and one can certainly conceive of 'differences' occurring throughout the system.AND,all this before considering day to day weather influences that may well present one with pre front opportunities in one section vs post front misery in another.(god,isn't this chit great!!!I love the lake!)
I honestly could write a book on this but in an effort to wrap this up i'll try to sum up my view briefly:This lake is in constant change and transition.Always has been and will be.Every day is somewhat different at least in some respects from one section to another.We not only have(I believe are blessed to have)daily changes to challenge us and keep us focused but we,of course,have the seasonal changes or transitions(feeding peaks or valleys???)occurring and varying from section to section.Soooo,MY 2 CENTS=When we experience hot/cold areas it only means an area may not be conducive to OUR chosen locational and presentational approach.Where we are focusing and how/what we are presenting and doing-keeping in mind that others usually are doing things different successfully in the very same lake sections.AND,as Doug mentioned,their 'doing it' in itself(ie,'pressure')can be a factor that screws us in that lake section.(as can algae at times)
IT always IMO boils down to applying the formula- F+L+P=S.:)
Mix it up-or move I guess.
Ryan,you may recall some years ago in my EA column I interviewed 'Big Mother',a huge fish from the Lake.Dig that out,her comments might help you.:)
Good FLPing!!!!!

[Dave B]

Here is part of an article by Mr. Pearson on the ERC site which seems on-point, or at least related:

"3. Areas and Style: When things are slow or inconsistent should one travel, or stay put? Run and gun, or slow down and pick structure apart? Do a little of all of the above?

Tough questions and who really knows, because if it lands right and flashes right the musky gods can make you happy no matter where or how you fish, but here’s a broad stroke picture of where I’m at on these questions after the past few months’ experience.

First of all I believe the grass can in fact be greener in different areas. I’ve known for years some areas of a massive body of water such as Lake of the Woods can at times be better than others—likely for good environmental reasons. However, I’m not talking a change of a few miles. I mean really different sections of the lake. No doubt in my mind that for a while other sections were better than, say, the Northwest Angle area, and vice versa. So do you travel and see? Sure—if your boat, knowledge of the lake and wallet permits. Why not try? On the other hand, if you have limited time, I suspect it may not be worthwhile.

OK, if I don’t travel, do I go slow and pick apart an area? Or do I run and gun and cover lots of water? There are good arguments both ways, but to me it depends on what I’m after. I’ll go faster to just find fish but there’s no doubt in my mind that slowing down and picking apart structure is the better way to catch ‘good’ fish.

“OK” you say, “but what area? Anywhere?” For me it’s a matter of sticking to known good or big fish areas, then picking them apart and being patient.

Let me give a few examples. This past month we spent 9 days filming for a video. Moving fast, we covered water and got a decent number of fish on film. However, the two biggest fish came on spots that hold few fish but were spots I had confidence in for big fish based on past experience. These were spots that I slowly—very slowly—picked apart despite nagging fears of wasting valuable (and expensive) camera time. How slowly? How patiently? How thoroughly? Rarely are we ever fishing spots too slowly, patiently or thoroughly I’m afraid.

One that got away gives us all a clue perhaps. We arrived at a small rock saddle—say, 40 yards wide and 50 yards long. I fished it thoroughly—or so I thought. When done, we decided the camera man should get out on a rock and we’d film a segment of how I would normally fish such a spot. Being a type A, I can’t just stand there while he gets his gear ready to get out, so I fire a jerk bait down an edge that the same jerk bait had visited at least twice just minutes before. Nothing. He’s still messing with his gear so I fire the same bait to the same spot. Two jerks, and the sea parts, a black hole opens up and a huge, slowly thrashing head emerges chewing on my bait, which ultimately is sent back to me via air mail. On film, even the loss would have been priceless, but all we end up with is dismay and the sickening acknowledgment that we often really are casting to she beasts, but most times they don’t move with just a cast or two in their general area.

A few days later I was telling my friend and retired DNR biologist Bob Strand about the incident, and he related the view of an old time Eagle Lake guide on this issue. This guide, with many huge fish to his credit, advocated that when on a known big fish spot, a minimum of 20 casts or so to each part of the spot should be made. Wow. Afraid I can’t go that far, but as time goes by, and such experiences accumulate, I’m beginning to wonder. Food for thought I think."

[dpear]

Dave,
A couple things about what you quoted stick out and the first one resonates louder now than years ago when I wrote it.Should you move?

"Sure—if your boat, knowledge of the lake and wallet permits. Why not try? On the other hand, if you have limited time, I suspect it may not be worthwhile."

While boats and Navchip changes have altered this statement some,the 'wallet permitting' part likely hasn't with todays gas prices.Likely to be less 'worthwhile'.

Secondly,guess who the camera man in the incident described was?Maybe I shouldn't say.:)

[dpear]

Dave,
Thanks for reminding me of the ERC site.Since we sold I had forgotten about a few of the articles still located there and one in particular is a good thought provoker at the beginning of any season.It never has been well received or discussed much but IMO merits reading for anyone.I'll take the liberty of referencing it.

http://www.esoxresearch.com/research/pearsonscorner_art08.php

Have a great season!

[NETim]

Ahem... you would think those long South Dakota winters would give a guy a chance to come out with another book. <ahem>

[dpear]

Tim,
Long SoDak winters?Not really,sure it seems to never end,sure we get a tad of snow(the last drift on my place departed late last week)but you mean there really are places where it doesn't snow 8 months,then turn 105 degrees for 4 months?Actually,upon reflection,I spend so much time shoveling/plowing I have no time to write.:(
Furthermore writing a book presumes a few things.First one should have something new or profound to say.Second,one should have the ability to write so it can be said in an understandable fashion.Finally self publishing takes $$ no matter what one hears nowadays.I fail all three presumptions.
Having said this,I can be totally shameless if a buck($$ not deer)is involved so the threat is always there and something for the muskie public to be apprehensive about.I do have a few chapters done,I do have a pile of notes and thoughts about 6 inches deep,and the Boss has okayed the 'investment' so why not?Simple-I have writers block which translated means I'm lazy and too busy being 'retired'.Yet...,one never knows I guess.I did go so far as to successfully approach a young muskie 'guru' about contributing a few sections on 'new technology'(to me thats anything beyond a rock n rope)and how to use it but then let him down with my laziness.This guy is smart and even catches fish so that part of a book might actually be meaningful.
Who knows,as stated,the threat still exists I guess.:confused:

[NETim]

Seems to me a book in your case would almost write itself.

Come up with a catchy phrase or two, (I dunno, something like "Let the wind do the work." or "A lure is a tool."), throw in a colorful Oak Island neighbor and presto! Best seller!!

:)

[dpear]

You know,a book totally about the colorful neighbor might just work!Might have to be a series though-its ongoing and has a life totally of its own.A work of Frankness,not art.:cool:

[Mr Musky]

Back to the topic, i'll be heading to the woods for my 11th year this year and I agree it seems like every year there's a certain hot area for that "week" as thats all the longer we are up. We spend the first couple days checking old areas and searching new but when we find fish we try to capitialize on them by recognizing the key areas they are holding in and then just locating as many of those same elements as possible for that day. If it's a big fish that is located we will come back many times throughout the day and usually get something to go during the majors and minors as we see day in and day out those timeframes have been crucial for our success. But yeah I know what you mean. One year you have them all dialed in close to camp and come back the next hoping to pick up where you left off and it seems the whole area is void of fish no matter what time of day. That's always a bummer!

Mr Musky

[dpear]

OK,sort of related to this topic I guess.Was asked to find the 'Big Mother' interview.Here's the unedited version.



AN INTERVIEW WITH BIG MOTHER
For years I had heard about her.Often on the dock at days end,’that Big mother got away’,but heck I’ve heard ‘Big Mother’ stories wherever muskie gals and guys gather.Over the years I’d likely even had a glimpse or two of her but then,last summer on Lake Of The Woods,I had her on briefly in a sad, heart wrenching experience I wrote about last issue.Still pondering that experience,I thought,if only I could talk to her,get an interview,get her side of all these stories,get answers to those key questions I have every time I head out looking for her,answers from her perspective,a look at fishing through her eyes,wow!
Then I thought,why not?So I put out some feelers and by gosh she granted me an exclusive interview.What follows here are her answers to many of those questions that haunt all of us.Think and enjoy.
DP: Big Mother,I know you’re about ready to head into that Bay over there to spawn so I appreciate you taking the time to meet me here in this adjacent deep hole and answer some questions before ice out.Do you mind if I address you as ‘BM’?
BM: That’s fine,ask away.
DP: BM,I’m a PC guy and know some ladies are sensitive about their weight but I’ve been fishing your kind for a long time,and while I catch(and release)a fair number of muskies,and a few nice ones,frankly I rarely see and never catch any your size-why is that?
BM: Ha,well that’s a broad question,writing a book?Anyway,let me start out by saying a big reason is you don’t practice what you preach.You preach’ thinking’and do very little of it.You advocate having a plan,yet rarely follow or stick with one yourself.I see you around occasionally but you’re almost always in such a hurry you don’t see me.Heck,most of the time you just drive right by,going only you know where.
DP: Ouch,is thinking or having a plan the wrong way to go?Can you get into a few specifics here?
BM: No,thinking and planning is the only way to go-absent blind luck-but you must practice what you preach.You don’t have to make it rocket science either.I hate to sound Al Goreish or like a ‘green’ weinie,but never forget, ‘environment’ means everything to us.We are ectotherms after all.
DP: Ecto what?
BM: Ectotherms.Often we are referred to as cold blooded(a misnomer),but really it just means we have no internal system to regulate our temperature and therefore depend on outside(ecto)sources to establish our temperature(therm).We pretty much are what our environment is.If the water is cold,so am I,get it?I think you do,I’ve read your writings on our ‘comfort zones’ and what we like and dislike,yet you really don’t seem to keep the importance of our environment in mind when fishing.I’ve been around a long time,I’ll be 26 in May,and I’ve learned how to deal efficiently in my environment.At my age,I don’t have to struggle and scramble for food,I wait til conditions suit me before I feed.You know pretty much what conditions I like,wouldn’t it make sense to focus on them more?To always consider them?To consider the effects weather and other factors might have on them-and therefore on me?Some conditions cause stress and make me react differently,if you want to find me under stressful conditions,you have to know and understand my environment-and just how I react to change and stress.
DP: Ah,I get it.Okay lets talk a bit about your environment and conditions that stress you out.What are they?
BM: Well there are a number of them,natural and man made but a main one is weather.Weather is something you should always consider when looking for me.Before and during your fishing trips.Of course it’s a broad subject-I guess winter and ice conditions are an extreme example of ‘weather’ with profound implications on my location and activity level- but I’d suggest you focus your questions on fishing season issues.
DP: I agree,well let me go right to the dreaded ‘cold front’ issue.Do cold fronts really have a significant effect on you?
BM: Ha,a Bozo question,what do you think?I could spend an hour on this but to avoid more stupid questions I’ll just discuss it generally.
First,as you hopefully know,a cold front is a low pressure system that most often brings with it high humidity,wind,rain,and warm temps.Its ‘change’ but change that’s largely good for me in terms of comfort be it temperature,oxygen,water pressure,PH,light penetration,whatever.This affects prey as well.It almost always is a period of great activity underwater and presents me with a significant feeding opportunity.Never forget,my computer has a chip that contains a genetic program developed over eons of time and through experience that tells me when and where to go to have an advantage over my prey.Sweet huh?Give me a comfortable opportunity to pig out and I’ll be there.Smart fishermen will be also.
However,whether listening to politicians preach it,or fishermen praise it,never forget that ‘change’ is a two edged sword.The problem isn’t cold fronts,it’s what follows them.High pressure,’high’ skies(increased light penetration)and lower temperatures among other changes, combine to stress me out.When water temp drops,so does mine.Remember though,its not only the drop in temperature,which sometimes isn’t that drastic,it’s the high pressure(air and water)that affects my bladder and therefore my neutral buoyancy-talk about a gas problem!The more drastic the change,the more it affects me.The pressure may actually cause me to change depth ,or it just may make me lie dormant in place, but it’s a serious gas problem.Throw in blinding bright light,a likely PH change caused by the fronts accompanying rain,and you have a situation where my sisters and I aren’t much interested in your feeble presentation efforts.Oh sure,we may have a few young,small, nephews and nieces running around still chasing things,despite their reduced metabolic rates, but usually even they get the word and lay low until they can adapt and conditions improve.Does this help you appreciate the effects of a cold front?
DP: Indeed.It makes it seem nearly futile to fish after such a front.Is it a waste of time?
BM: Well its sure tougher fishing and its very unlikely you’ll ever get me but,to be honest,every now and then a sister does get caught in post front conditions.Anticipating some questions,let me give you some general rules and ideas.
First,there’s no excuse for not being aware of an impending front and taking advantage of the increased activity preceding and during the front.Hate to admit this,but I’m more vulnerable then than any other time.
Next, don’t automatically assume I’ll go deeper post front.In clearer water I may,but other times I may go shallower to warm up in the sun.
The more drastic the ‘change’,the more profound and longer the negative effect on me.
There are areas where the post front effects are minimized.If I’m in such a spot,I just may grab your lure.For instance in areas where there’s significant water movement(I read about your ‘chaos and turmoil’ theories),wouldn’t water temps,oxygen,PH,etc. be ‘mixed’ and therefore change minimized?Ditto on light penetration?Ditto on water pressure?Wouldn’t prey be concentrated?Think Bozo, think.
If my metabolic rate has slowed,I guarantee I’ll move slower and travel less so think about what this means in terms of your presentation.However,I’m rarely inclined to pass up a free morsel right in my face so….Can you say ‘reduced strike window’?
Time heals all is an old phrase that holds true.I’ll get more active as time passes and I adapt.Combine that passage of time with other environmental ‘edges’ such as dusk and a surface bait and who knows what I might do?Like most females,I’ve been known to lose control.
Are you done soon?
DP: Heck no,I’m just getting started.I’d like to chat about some other conditions that cause you stress-and how you react to them.You said there were a number of natural and man made ones.What about thunder and lightning?Algae growth?Wind?Fishing pressure?I even want to chat about the ‘Cowgirl’ thing a bit-that must cause you some stress.
BM: Well right now I’m short on time and I have a date in yonder bay but I’ll meet you after spawning IF you agree to leave the Cowgirl type baits and questions at home.
DP:Wait,wait,wait,what do you mean leave those kinds of baits home,are they causing you that much stress?
BM: Shut that recorder off,we’re going off record.NOW!
Well folks,that’s it for now I’m afraid.She was mad and went into a rant about the ‘Cowgirl’ type baits(in fact she fumed about more new ones coming out,Gerry's Girls,Turbines,etc)She was upset about the fact few of us,if anyone,had a clue as to why a number of her sisters had succumbed to them.How she had nearly bit one and on and on.I tried to placate her by saying I understood that they must nearly short circuit her lateral line but that only led to a further rant about how little I(we)knew,how we should know that her swim bladder,like her lateral line,is very sensitive to ‘vibration’ and is also connected to her sensory system and then,suddenly she stopped talking and said” that’s it,I’ve said enough,I’m done talking.”
She did promise to talk further after spawning so tune in next issue,I’ll get the answers.
Good fishing!
Remember:thinking is just being thoughtful.
Dick
copyright DP

[jlong]

Wow. Cool interview.

With the latest Musky Hunter magazine touting the bennies of thermal warming, those south facing sand bays/coves/garages will see lots of pressure this year on LOTW.

If I were lucky enough to visit LOTW this summer and got hit with post cold front conditions (water temps dropped a few dedgrees or more), I'd be ignoring the sand and looking for DP's favorite BLACK FRAGS.

Man I miss LOTW.

jlong

[dpear]

Thanks J,tough interviews.As you may recall I got a couple more sessions with her although I never did publish the 3rd one yet.(EA went down)Maybe if I ever get to that book but......
The third was particularly difficult cause her 'Fishbook' friends were also weighing in at times-especially 'Heavy Horse' and 'Big Pig'.Hard to keep up with all the social 'networking'(they hate that word for obvious reasons)going on at the time.Heck I even recorded a 'Fweet' from 'Big Bitch' that mentioned Frankie no less.
I suppose I could find an unedited version of the second interview to post here but that ones painful cause she belittled me yet called Doug J a 'cutie' and said he 'had a way with women' if memory serves.Will have to ponder that awhile.
Good fishing this year!

[dpear]

repititious

[NETim]

Yeah, I truly believe the big girls think Doug J is "cute". I've seen the pics!!

Thinking?!? Is there any other way to approach muskie fishing other than thinking?

That's asking too much IMHO. I'm switching to perch.

[dpear]

Tim,
There must be viable alternatives to my kind of thinking,at least I hope so.I have a mirror you know.

As to Doug and the 'cutie' thing,I hear ya.I had Big Mother and her friends do some spot success polls around the Lake for me.Turns out Doug has over 40 of those 'girlie pics' on one complex alone.:eek:Can you say 'envious'?

[NETim]

I dunno if there's much wrong with your thinking Dick. Wasn't it just last year you had a morning of three 50's the week we were there?

That's a good morning in any Muskie man's world I'd say. Some thinking HAD to be part of the picture I'd say. :)

[dpear]

Well Tim I dunno,I think there's a saying about a blind squirrel and an acorn or three but I can't think of it right now.I'm thinking the mirror doesn't lie,had I been thinking,I think I'd look better after all these years of hard thinking.

[NETim]

Well Tim I dunno,I think there's a saying about a blind squirrel and an acorn or three but I can't think of it right now.I'm thinking the mirror doesn't lie,had I been thinking,I think I'd look better after all these years of hard thinking.


Now you're getting a bit too philosophical for this old farm boy. :)

I try not to think too much and my fishing shows it. :)

[Ed Spoerl]

...blue bird post cold front NW winds..... a south-south west facing sand bay protected by the wind, can make your day!

[fishwizard]

I’ve been on the road far too much in the past week, and not a mile of it in pursuit of muskies. A real shame. I must say I’m glad to see some real discussion has sprung forth from the loose threads that were hanging out there. If I were a thinking man’s type of muskie fisherman I’d jot much of these ideas down in a notebook to reference on the water, but alas laziness prevails, and not surprisingly I’m so far from retirement that the word shouldn’t even be used by me. The worst part is that my one opportunity this summer to once again fail at attempting to apply our resident guru's vast knowledge lessons on the always beautiful LOTW, doesn't sound like it will now be happening. I guess there is always next year...?

Thanks Dave, for bringing back that sour pit in my stomach for being too slow on the draw. Of course, I blame the camera owner who only lent it to the Star to use with a case straight from Fort Knox, making quick draws nearly impossible. I guess he knew who he was dealing with, and so we must all live with the great shot that never was. But since we’ve gone there I must bring up the complete lack of hookset on a slow-rolled spinnerbait monster who swam along the side of the boat with the spinner blade just fluttering on her cheek before opening her massive mouth and swimming away up on 5 Rocks. :(

Ryan

[dpear]

Ryan,
I don't remember ever losing a muskie.Guess its possible,anything is possible.I do practice catch and release though so its possible you didn't see the release part.Who knows?

[fishwizard]

Somewhere there might be a video tape that possibly wasn't taped over that knows. Somewhere...

[dpear]

Stories,stories stories.I throw hats,don't set hooks,drop rods in lakes,nets in lakes,and on and on.Rumors,lies,slander.I can't recall a single instance of any of it.
There may have been a time or two the fish missed my bait and it appeared it got off but I can't recall a single true loss.

[NETim]

Okay, now I'm beginning to understand the 20 minutes of black screen in a certain DVD I bought.

:)

[fishwizard]

Tim,
You have to flip the dvd upside down and play it backwards to see all that good stuff. All the rigged hooksets, the other guys who hand off the rod once they had a fish on, and the scuba divers pulling on the end of his line, etc., etc.

Actually it's been so long since I've been able to watch the dvd, after loaning it to a friend who never gave it back, that I may have just imagined all that stuff. Try the upside and backwards trick anyways and let me know if it works.

Ryan

[dpear]

I am a recent arrival in Frankie land and have already presented him with numerous mechanical challenges.In an effort to allow him to resume certain mundane tasks,such as making a living,I am presently engaged in trying to actually resolve a few challenges myself and decline the opportunity to respond to scandalous attacks.

[NETim]

Mechanical troubles? Tell me about it. Crawled underneath the boat all day today to fix up a fender full of broken rivets when I noticed that a brake line was leaking. Then I noticed a puddle of gear lube underneath the lower unit.

At least no wheel bearing hubs were leaking oil.

Stupid boats.

[dpear]

Tim,
Sorry to hear about your troubles.Your loss is my gain though I guess cause I never knew til now lower units had bearing hubs.Gonna try check mine today since I don't think anyone else has.
One of my problems yesterday kept me busy for hours.Trolling motor wouldn't work but fortunately Frankies new staff mechanic eventually felt sorry for me,looked into it,and got er going by turning on a 'master switch'.(another new feature I was unaware of.)Pretty soon all these new gadgets will be beyond me.
On a brighter note,I did go fishing a couple hours and scored 4 very big smallies,a few pike and by golly I saw a reddish brown thing behind my Rap that I bet was about 50 inches long.No foolin,I wouldn't swim in that spot!!!
Since you shared some boating knowledge with me,here's back at ya-and this tip is valuable.Always check your boat the first trip out to make sure your rain gear is in it.It rained pretty hard here yesterday.

[NETim]

Thanks for the tip Dick! :) I am now a fully qualified RangerTrail mechanic. Hasn't been much I haven't done to mine. Fortunately the boat doesn't fall apart as fast as the trailer does. :)

[dpear]

A hunting buddy saw the last post of mine and sent me this saying its Time I Turned The Page.He's volunteered to pay my tuition to a boat mechanics school.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR1P4F-4KKA

May not be your cup of tea although these guys do talk about 'east of Omaha' so...????

I guess I'm guiding these guys this year.Quite a gig it will be.

[NETim]

Metallica fishes? Metallica fishes muskies?!?!

Get out of here! No way.

East of Omaha is Iowa but you can't get there from here 'cause the Muddy Mo has UNBELIEVABLE amounts of water in it right now. (and will have for months to come.)

Metallica did "Turn The Page" the way it was supposed to be done IMHO. Seger wrote it but Metallica rocks it.

No doubt it will an interesting day in the boat.

[dpear]

I hear ya on the 'Big Mo',it's flooding our State Capital as I type.
Well nothing definite yet on the gig but everything is possible.Not sure Frankies barge can support all the guitfiddles and amplifiers though if they want to bang and twang in the evening.Could be like July 4th around these parts.

[NETim]

Good timing I'm thinking. Isn't that the week the Vets are up there?

Since our originally planned for two week stay recently got torpedoed by Rachel's evil employer, we only do a one weeker again this year, the week after the festivities. :(

Don't know if I could put up with all those skinny bikini clad groupies hanging around the band and cluttering up the barge anyway. :)

Umm... I think I'm adding 2+2 and getting 5 here. Anyway, whenever they're up that way, I'm sure it'll be a great time.

[dpear]

Been home a few days Tim dealing with FEMA issues for our township.Getting 'east of Omaha' is gonna be tough all summer I'm afraid.Still raining,melting and flooding in Montana and with all reservoirs south overflowing,this mess is long term all the way to the Gulf I'm afraid.:(

[dpear]

It's now official.Some parts of the lake suck(Franks dock)and some are hot(a friends dock elsewhere on the lake).Of course,I'm on the 'suck' end.

[NETim]

It's now official.Some parts of the lake suck(Franks dock)and some are hot(a friends dock elsewhere on the lake).Of course,I'm on the 'suck' end.

Your boat is STILL broke down? Bummer!

[dpear]

The article on 'Confidence' is referenced in this thread for a certain person.

[dpear]

Water movement-the key to most mysteries.

[fishwizard]

Taken from the www.esoxresearch.com article Confidence referenced earlier:

"SIDEBAR
Folks years ago I created a ‘Think Card’ that I still carry in my wallet to help when my confidence level sags.Its merely a checklist of many of the things mentioned above(including a long list of possible structures to consider trying)but it sure helps me in tough times.I believe such checklists are great.


Pete Maina and I are in the process of creating a number of ‘checklists’(including a revised ‘Think Card’) that will be laminated and easy to access.These will be available soon,cover key topics in muskie fishing,and I believe helpful to all."

Dick

Dick, did you and Pete ever make these cards, and if so, are they available for hacks like me to purchase? Some guys are lucky and some are just good, and while I'm neither, it doesn't take more than reading a few lines of articles like this (or put some time in the back of his boat) to know which dp is. It's so easy to get bogged down in that which is muskie fishing, and getting yourself unbogged is as important, or likely more so, than any of the baits or gear you use.

Ryan

[dpear]

Ryan,
No,we never did it.If memory serves(not often anymore),Pete's 'people' didn't see it selling.Like a new book,I've toyed with still doing it but....
Off to clinically measure/dissect water movement.

[dpear]

By the way,I'm getting close.

[dpear]

Since I no longer 'talk' or 'write',I rarely give the musky gurus,pundits and assorted experts opportunities to laugh at my weirdness but here's another opp for them.

'Flotsam'.Yes,you're reading it right,'flotsam'.If you're into 'water movement'(if you're not,you should be)as key to location,flotsam is an easy read this time of year with dead/decaying weeds and other debris being carried by that movement.Find it and you're close to the 'X'.
Enough weirdness for one day.Attaching one of my typical lousy pics-one of two big 'flotsam' fish from this morning.Naptime.Good flotting!

[dpear]

Ryan,
Just re-read my comment about Pete and feel I should say I wasn't being critical or snide about his 'people'.He's in the fishing business and his ventures have to make 'sense' and 'cents'.Mine are usually nonsense in both categories.

[fishwizard]

That background looks like too many different possible flotsam locations to know for sure, but I'm guessing that I've fished it. Could be the other side of the lake more likely, but wishful thinking and ignorance says otherwise.

Ryan

[dpear]

You might have fished there.We may have filmed there.Think 'long point' behind the camera and it may help.The flotsam concentration there is pretty simple-lee side of the point.The issue though without the flotsam is which side is the 'lee' side on any given day?Often different than the wind would appear to dictate but flotsam this time of year doesn't lie.:-)
Frankie and I got in a couple neat 'movements' last nite.In one place the movement carried us UPWIND.Upwind against a very strong wind just before the storm hit.In another,his 36 volt system struggled against the 'movement'.Obviously a strong flow-too strong for them to set up in.
By the way,the place in the pic kicked out a fat 47 this morning.Naptime.

[dpear]

Well got the cabin closed;boat stored at D&S at the Angle and arrived home last nite.While the season is just starting for many of you,it's over for me.It's been a great one for many reasons-not the least of which is the help and assistance and friendship of our neighbors Frank and Laura.My season never gets off the ground without them.Thanks much you two!
Thanks also to all of you that engage on this website,its always fun and enjoyable.If you've got the time,I'd consider a quick trip to Franks.Clear water,near zero pressure and I did very well indeed on biggies.
Second goose season opens in the AM and then my Fall is off and running so won't be here much but good fishing all!

[fishwizard]

Well, good luck in the fields and trees this fall. Any numbers to throw out there on the summer totals? I'm still holding out hope for a trip to Frank's in October, but time and $ are a premium with only 9 months here in TN before we plan to move back up to NE. After that, you can expect me to around bothering things and complaining about not catching fish a couple times a year. I sure do miss the Northwoods, and the good friends who call the place home, whether year round or just for a week at a time.

Ryan

[JBlanck]

Nice to see you again this summer dp. Thanks for the reports and photos. You did have one heck of a season and this time had photos to prove it. I guess now we can believe that you do catch some fish now and then. Have a good fall! (season...not physically)

Jeff

[dpear]

Ryan,
No numbers but lots.Have a great Fall.Take care of the bride and get home to Nebraska.
Jeff,
Nice to see you again as well.Well,sort of.Well let me rephrase that-sort of nice to see you again,for a short visit anyway.I think.
As to the fish,it was a great year,not as good as last but great.A blind pig,a few acorns,it all adds up.
You and your group hit a tough time,hopefully better next year.See you then-for a short visit.I hope.

[dpear]

I'm busy hunting but after my visit here now it's obvious few are willing to chat.Here's a thought-do any of you trollers focus on 'water movement'?
For that matter,how about some trolling pics here when you start getting em?I'm bored so post something dammit.
By the way,a friend went to an area I recommended on a river system(water movement)in Canada last week with jigging blade baits and scored some biggies.See,a few things i say may have merit.
He also caught a 52.25 on a Medussa a couple days ago in the same area.Sweet!
WAKE UP out there.

[dougj@wiktel.com]

Yep!

Starting to get some trolling. I key in on areas with no water movement, but that's just me!

Good luck with the cridders, I'll keep the fish occupied till you get back.

DougJ

[JBlanck]

I just got back from the first real fishing trip in the new boat. The club had an outing on Deer Lake. No trolling but got a couple small ones to slime the boat. Planning on trying to troll a little on Green Bay next month. Otherwise, a couple fall weekends on Vermilion to target some pigs. Still some time before ice so hoping to get out as much as possible. Looking forward to the photos of the pigs from LOTW.

Jeff

[dpear]

Well another classic SoDak waterfowling morning.Instead of kids today,my buddy Argo Man and I took an 89 yr oldtimer.We had a limit of geese and ducks in less than an hour.Old boy(as if I'm young)sat on a bucket and shot his geese but struggled a bit hitting ducks.Great time!
Yeh,Doug,get some big ones!Post some pics as well to keep this place rolling-about the only fishing site I visit anymore.
As to water movement,I troll little so better keep my mouth shut but,especially on the Woods,I'm thinking water movement is what makes many spots 'good' even though we often don't recognize it.Points and saddles for instance.Few would be worth much without it IMO.The movement seems to consistently make those spots 'busy'.
Jeff,congrats on the new boat.Us old guys with older boats could use a ride once in awhile,hint,hint-as long as we fish your spots.:)

[JBlanck]

dp, the guy you took hunting...was his name Herbert? I've seen a guy named Herbert that reminds me of you so I figured maybe you two got together. Check out some video clips of this guy and let me know if it's your friend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QsFYCVjp0M

Your welcome in the boat anytime. The spots we'd fish are all your old spots, though, so don't hold that against me.

Good luck in your "off season".

Jeff

[fishwizard]

I admit I check this site just about daily, and it is too bad that it can often go a week or more without new postings. Especially disappointing knowing the knowledge base that reads and comments on stuff here when anything is posted. Still a great site, no doubt. I'm still holding out hope for a trip to Frankies this fall and would like to have pics of big fall piggies to post. They certainly wouldn't be caught trolling, but fishing the same shorelines and structure, that would be for sure. To each, his own.

Southeast facing rock shelf points with lots of open windblown water surrounding them. Those are definitely some of my favorite spots in the fall.

Until then, I’ll have to occupy myself with watching my Huskers welcome themselves into the B1G with a win over those “stinking Badgers” this weekend. Go Huskers.

Ryan

[musky1969]

Yes we have caught a bunch trolling "Current" areas does not matter natural or wind produced, best was 4 passes 4 fish in a very tight spot to troll. I am also hoping to try to get up to Heaven yet this fall working very hard from a loss we had this spring when our biggest customer decided to go BK and owed us 90K (Ouch that hurt). First summer in 16 years did not get up there :( Maybe the muskie gods will let a little extra money our way so we can get up there. Hope everyone up there is safe and has great trips.
Darren

[Fisher]

Darren, if you need a place to stay to cut costs so you can make a trip up north this year, I may have something you could use for free. Its nothing special, but has heat, TV, beds, etc. just no running water after next weekend (8th). Anyway, if your interested just let me know.
Thanks

[dpear]

Ran into this while trying to research the difference between water movement at night vs day.Kind of interesting.

http://saltfishing.about.com/od/tidesweatherreefs/a/aa070517a.htm

[dougj@wiktel.com]

You've love it up here right now! Gusting to around 35 MPH or more for the last three days and suppose to get real windy tomorrow (wonderful!!!!!!!).

I doubt that the fish even know it's windy, but I sure do!

We got three today, on the calm side!

Doug

[Tim Kelly]

Keep a hold of your hat Doug!

[dpear]

Good going Doug-although it likely was calm only on the surface.:)
I hope someone posts a few pics,I should give photo lessons I guess.

[NETim]

Damn wind. :(

[dpear]

This wind is causing me to lose hats but I love it.The ducks and geese are knocking them off they are so low.:)

[NETim]

Did I ever tell you my duck hunter joke Dick?

[dpear]

Don't think so Tim but....what was your Q again?

[NETim]

No question this time, Dick but I thought since you're a duck hunter, I thought you might like my duck hunter joke.

A duck hunter dies and goes to heaven. He arrives at the Pearly Gates and there's a long line. Despite that, St. Peter rushes out and warmly greets the old duck hunter and begins to escort him forward, obviously ignoring those ahead of him.

The duck hunter is bewildered and confused. "Wait a minute!" he exclaims. "There are all kind of people ahead of me. There are priests, bishops and even popes ahead of me. Why am I going first?"

St Peter smiles and says, "I know, but you're the first duck hunter we've ever got!!"


:)

[dpear]

Amen to that.

[dpear]

Tim,
The boss bought me some voice recognition software(Dragon)that would allow me to dictate to my computer vs hunt and peck typing.The book threat might be closer to reality now.Time will tell.
Just a warning.

[Frank Walsh]

Hopefully has an obscenity filter.

[dpear]

It did but I already melted the * * * thing.

[dpear]

Was reviewing and working on some stuff and ran across this oldie.Believe it or not,I wasn't drinking-and probably not thinking either.

"
‘ STRUCTURE’-WHAT THE HECK IS THAT?

Well ,to be honest,I’m not sure anymore.Based on questions I’ve been asked via e-mail or following seminars,I’m clearly not alone.I suspect asking ten fishermen would generate ten different definitions.What at face value may seem straight forward to many,perhaps really isn’t anymore.Should we care?I would think we ought to.I sure do.We often hear things like 90% of the fish are in 10% of the water.Well,whether true or not on any given body of water,its clear there’s a lot of sterile water out there and therefore if,as I believe, the fish are related to structure,seems to me we ought to carefully define and understand what structure is.
Is it composed of hard traditional elements like reefs,points,breaklines used by fish as travel routes or does it include less permanent elements like bait,thermal lines and so on?What about things that guys like myself write and preach about such as ‘edges’,’comfort zones’,’cover’ vs ‘structure’,’climatic factors’ and on and on.Are these structural elements or something different?I suspect all this is causing unnecessary confusion-particularly to newcomers to the sport.I suspect we need a new definition of what structure is-one that fits an evolving,ever changing fishing scene.A common language if you will-a language we all can understand.Then again,maybe I really am crazy.Lets see where this goes.
First a little historical perspective.The first discussion of structure may have gone something like this;
Caveman to Cavelady:”Honey,stoke up the fire,I reached down behind that same rock in the stream and by golly I grabbed another fish.Woman,that rock rocks!Its one great piece of structure!”
OK,OK maybe that isn’t exactly how it went,but in reality,at least in the sport fishing context,significant advancements beyond that simple approach didn’t occur until fairly recently.In my view it wasn’t until Buck Perry came out with his book on Spoonplugging in 1965 that the concept of ‘structure’was intelligently discussed and considered.In the same era you get Fishing Facts magazine,pioneers like Bill Binkelman,Tony Portincaso and the Lindner brothers,and then of course,Lowrances little ‘Green Box’,the depth finder(fish finder?) that changed the world of ‘structure’forever.At that point ‘structure’became THE buzz word.Man I can remember rowing around on lakes looking for ‘migration routes’.’feeding flats’ and other hyped locations til my arms ached.I recall how stunned I was by the simplicity yet ingenuity involved in the concept of using a lure to find or follow ‘structure’,say a deep weedline-not to mention the fishing success that came with it.I wasn’t alone,thousands and thousands were waiting to take fishing to a higher level.Given the impetus,entire sub industries grew up and sport fishing took off.Really took off!
But,you know what,muskie fishing lagged behind.Muskie fishermen for the most part remained pretty basic and one dimensionable.If you were from the Midwest,you primarily casted-and almost always casted at or around weeds.That was your structure.If you were out east you likely trolled,trolled rivers or reservoirs,and again,’structure’was pretty basic with the focus on current edges,bars,maybe flooded timber in reservoirs,but still basic and traditional.
It wasn’t until the late 70s and early 80s that other than basic traditional structure was discussed or popularized in most muskie circles and even then change came grudgingly and slow.In 1982 my wife and I had an article published in In Fisherman magazine where we talked about fishing walls,deep rock reefs,neck-downs,wind and wind current edges and other alternative types of structure and I can assure you many good muskie fisherman then,and for years thereafter,thought we were nuts.(I know,no comments please,many still do.)
So I submit what constitutes ‘structure’has changed and will continue to change-and perhaps continue to confuse newcomers to our sport unless we correctly define it.So where are we now in terms of a definition.Well I suspect we are kind of in limbo.Some consider it to be only ‘hard’traditional elements such as weeds,points,reefs,or breaklines,while others would consider less permanent features such as wind or baitfish as structure.In other words there really is no clear definition most can agree on.For example look at how I defined it in my book ‘Muskies On The Shield’when it was published in 2001:
“ In the simplest sense,structure is something that ‘holds’fish.Most often,the term refers to a physical feature of the lakes topography-breaklines or drop-offs,islands,inside turns or points.Structure,though,at least in terms of how fish relate to it,can also mean less permanent features of a fish’s environment-thermoclines,current,both natural and ‘unnatural’,mud or algae lines,even schools of forage.Though these kinds of things aren’t exactly ‘structure’in the traditional sense and are somewhat impermanent-a school of ciscoes moves around,while rock reefs pretty much stay put-they do affect fish location,sometimes more so than traditional structure,and in many cases are approached the same way in terms of how you fish them.As we shall see,it pays to expand one’s perception of what ‘structure’is beyond the traditional.”

Good enough?Maybe-if I’d quit after the first sentence.But note,I didn’t,nor does anyone else who tries to define it.In fact,I and others seem to just confuse and complicate it the more we talk or write.For instance,about a year after my book came out I started to talk and write about ‘edges’and ‘environmental factors’.Then a couple years ago I had an article here in EA about those concepts and appeared to use them interchangeably with ‘structure’..I even talked about ‘traditional’ vs’ non-traditional’ edges and yet,at least indirectly,implied these ‘edges’were not structure.
I and others continue to go beyond and write about’comfort zones’.thermal lines,twi-lite zones,chaos and turmoil areas,and so on.Some,particularly in the bass world,draw –or attempt to draw-distinctions between cover and structure.Is it any wonder there’s confusion about what structure is?
More importantly does it matter?I believe it does,for a number of reasons.First in terms of communication and education its tough to teach-or learn-something that isn’t defined.Confusion has to follow. Seems to me a new,more inclusive definition would simplify things and remove this confusion.
Secondly,as new technology comes into use,types of ‘structure’,such as thermal lines,oxygen readings,etc will be more readily available to use and certainly will be discussed and written about,likely causing more confusion absent a clear definition.
Finally and perhaps most importantly,as new frontiers such as the Great Lakes and even just ‘open water’fishing in general becomes more popular and widespread,a framework to talk about new,or lets say impermanent,types of structures will be needed.In my view,a key mindset for success in these new frontiers will be to try identify and then combine as many of these less permanent types of ‘structure ‘ as possible to increase your odds of fish contact..Or put it this way, a key to success out there may well be trying to create non-traditional ‘complexes’ in the middle of nowhere-complexes composed of structural elements such as bait,current,temperature and oxygen comfort zones,favorable weather,light conditions(dawn/dusk/clouds/whatever.),etc.Absent a common language,ie,simplying and clarifying the definition of structure,how will we ever communicate and understand each other as we go forward?
So what am I suggesting?A new all inclusive definition of structure.One that doesn’t cause confusion.One that frees the mind to think about things that attract or affect fish WITHOUT having to characterize where they fit or how to label them..If they affect or attract fish,that’s enough,its ‘structure’and lets move on to how to fish it.
Well whats a good definition?I grabbed Websters New World Dictionary seeking some guidance but none of the definitions of structure there completely fits,although a couple are tantalizingly close to my frame of mind when I suggest putting structures together leads to fishing success.For instance,’to heap together,arrange’;or,’the arrangement or interrelation of all parts of a whole’;or,’something composed of interrelated parts forming an organism or an organization’.
Recently during a seminar in Chicago I proposed a definition that seems simple and all inclusive.How about:”Structure’is anything that fish relate to or are affected by”?Adapt that definition and it seems to me the confusion inherent in talking about,’factors’,’edges’,’zones’,whatever disappears.Let the gurus pontificate all they(I) want,ignore our labels and pithy concepts,if it affects fish or they relate to it,consider it as structure and move on.If it doesn’t,its not likely worth considering in the fishing context anyway.
Folks,as I sit here in mid February watching a blizzard roar across the hills outside I read and reread this wondering,have I said anything worthwhile?Is there anything here worth writing-or more importantly-reading about.?Something profound-or something stupid and unnecessary?Is my sense of all the confusion out there a product of age or senility?I doubt it,I think fishing has advanced so fast and far that we have left old definitions way behind.Even though at this point I’m still obviously struggling to get my arms around this topic,at a minimum,I hope this gets a conversation on ‘structure’going.
Remember:thinking is just being thoughtful.
See you next issue.
Dick

[lambeau]

so in a body of water like Lake of the Woods that has a ton of constantly changing current...wouldn't there be "rivers" flowing into/through/out of the large basins? their courses likely change constantly, but they must exist. these would be a form of structure under this broad definition since they would affect baitfish and predator fish.

if we presume a fair number of large fish are located near large basins during mid-to-late summer, then it would be important to locate structure in or near these basins, yes? and the places where current "rivers" in the basins (non-traditional structure) contact reefs/islands/points (traditional structure) would make for complex (big mama) structure, yes? perhaps this might account for the reasons "good" traditional structure can sometimes be hot and sometimes be cold?

knowing that current is created by more than just the wind, how do i locate open-water current? i see something eariler in this thread about flotsam during late summer and think this would be useful, but is there anything else i should be looking for???

(wow...this is a crazy good thread.)

[dpear]

Thought I'd responded earlier today but...????
Anyway,I hesitate to respond cause Oh boy do I love this stuff.I'm sure not short of theories and opinions here.A few facts even but hell,who needs facts?
I'm in the hunting mode for a couple days but here's another 'oldie' to ponder Mike-at least til I can respond further.:p

" FISHING ‘OUT THERE’

Hi Folks.Sure hope your season has gone well so far-complete with big fish and smiles.
What I want to talk about in this column is fishing ‘out there’,you know,the ‘open water’thing.Some of you have been doing it since opening day,some are thinking its time to try it out there,and some I suspect have never tried it,or have,but without success and have no intention of seriously trying it again.Regardless of what category you’re in,I suspect all of you at times have concerns about how random it seems when fishing out there.How much water there is,how little ‘structure’there appears to be,in reality how futile it seems..Well,lets take a closer look at that and see if we can’t crank(no pun intended)your confidence level up a notch or two.
First a few threshold concepts:
1.Clear your mind a little with regard to what structure is-or isn’t.Don’t get hung up in meaningless terminology-ie,whether structure is just traditional hard things like points,reefs,weeds,breaklines,etc;or non-traditional like current,weather,moon phase or bait;or whether’edges’are structure;or are comfort zones structure;and on and on.Forget it.As I’ve said before,if fish relate to it or are affected by it,consider it structure and move on.
2.Remember,species don’t survive by random movement.Fish are related to structure out there,its just that we have trouble finding much of it.Understand we are conditioned to throw at or troll around structure and the sense of futility is fed by our difficulty in locating what structure exists out there.
3.There are two keys to finding fish out there.One is eliminating as much sterile water as possible(shrinking the box).The second is combining as much structure as we can identify while out there and focusing on those ‘busy’areas.
First lets focus on eliminating some water.Every body of water will have certain key areas’out there’that are consistently good.For years I’ve called them golden triangles just because my best area in one of my favorite open water lakes was roughly a half mile square area between 3 pieces of traditional structure that formed a triangle.Whatever you call these consistent hot spots,all lakes have them but how do we find them short of fishing everything out there?What follows are my ideas on how to eliminate water and find these spots.
1.Consider what I just said regarding my favorite spot.A logical area to consider is between and/or adjacent to good traditional structure.If you have a great point or weedbed and a quarter or half mile out in the lake you have a favorite reef,isn’t it likely the open water between should be fished?The same can be true with respect to deeper traditional structure such as isolated humps IF they appear to have the consistent bait I’ll discuss next.
2.Pay attention to your electronics and the birds to monitor‘bait’whenever you are on the water.You will eventually find areas that consistently hold the heaviest bait concentrations and these almost undoubtedly will be some of the key open water areas on that lake.Thats nearly guaranteed if there happens to be fairly consistent current(natual or wind induced)in the area as well.(ie,the open water areas on each side of good saddles or above or below neck down areas on larger bodies of water.)
3.Speaking of current,I believe it plays a huge role here.It affects bait distribution,temperature and oxygen distribution,and lord knows what else but the open water areas adjacent to my favorite current areas are solid winners.A separate article in itself but see and reread the two part article on current in Esox Angler last year by Pete Maina and I if you’re unsure of what areas I’m talking about.
4.So far we’ve looked at the body of water in a horizontal fashion.Where should we travel to and focus our attention while on this lake?However,equally important,we should consider the body of water in a vertical sense if our goal is to eliminate sterile water.If the lake is 100 or more feet deep and you have to be concerned with only the top 10,20 or 30 feet did you eliminate some water?Lots!Likely the bulk of it.
THINK and err SHALLOW out there.I gave a series of seminars on this subject this past winter and hopefully some day I’ll finish the book I’m working on where this will be covered in detail but my theory after all these years is that 99% of the muskies are shallow 99% of the time.By ‘shallow’ I mean they rarely if ever are below what I’ll call the photo zone,the zone or depth wherein there is sufficient light penetration to allow photosynthesis to take place.Briefly,and somewhat oversimplied,that’s a depth approximately twice the secchi disc reading on a given body of water.Light penetrates further but in an amount insufficient for the creation of life.This zone therefore is easily ascertainable.Maps,the internet or your DNR can give you this secchi depth or determine it close enough on your own by dropping a white object(I use a white anchor)down until it disappears.Measure that distance,double it,(add a few feet if you’re skeptical)and then don’t fish below it.Ever.If its 10 feet,double it to twenty,and ignore totally the 60,80 or 100 feet below that.Because of the location of a muskies eyes, feeding habits,and some points that follow I’d urge you to err shallow if anything.
Support for my theory?Lots beyond my personal experiences accumulated over the years which I’ll not discuss here because of space constraints.
First consider that this zone is where the meaningful food chain lives most of the time.From photoplankton to zooplankton to ciscoes or whatever,that’s where its at.As Dan Cravens article in the last issue and the installment in this issue points out,even ciscoes are shallower than we thought and even if they go deeper,almost all sub species rise to this zone to feed.Necessarily.Guess who’s waiting for them to come to dinner?Perhaps waiting in that ‘twi light’zone of murky,light deprived water which Gord Pyzer has written about that really is the bottom of the photo zone.(studies suggest big pike utilize this zone to ambush prey silhouetted above-think muskies do?I do and my trolling records confirm it.
Next consider a muskies ‘comfort zone’.We can quibble whether its 68 degrees or 72 degrees but regardless,their comfort zone in terms of temperature,unlike big pike or trout ,is clearly within this photo zone.If you wish,ignore telemetry studies that show they are never below this zone pre turnover,dismiss the phenomenom of muskie porpoising on the surface regularly,forget the big ‘swim bys’we all see while fishing away but get real,why in the world would the king(queen)of freshwater fish leave their comfort zone when their food is there as well.Stay shallow-eliminate sterile water.
Okay lets talk briefly about the second key to finding fish out there-combining structure.
Actually we really can’t ‘combine’it,that is create it or move it around but we can all develop a thought process of trying to recognize and be aware of as much ‘structure’as possible being present at a given time and place.The more present,the better our odds of fish contact.’Busy’places are fish places.By way of anology consider a traditional point in your favorite lake.Points are often great fish spots but a plain old barren point is not very exciting-particularly on say a cool,sunny,calm day.Now though add a weed bed and a little wind.Better?Add a few boulders,some baitfish and dusk coming-or thunder rumbling in the distance.Now better?For sure.In the open water context we may not have hard traditional structure to focus on but we can still try to recognize and’combine’as much structure as possible.Look for open water‘complexes’if you will.
Well can we really do this out there?Sure,to an extent.Key structure out there like current,water temperature,oxygen levels that fish are relating to may be difficult or nearly impossible to ascertain meaningfully with existing technology but you can try.For sure you can find and focus on bait-or consistent bait areas-that likely are telling you a lot about temp,oxygen and current anyway.Bait,as structure,is as good as it gets out there absent actual muskie sightings or contact.But there’s a lot more.Wind(often chaos and turmoil exists out there as well),solar/lunar phases,weather(anticipate and use it),dawn and dusk(light changes),in short lots of things that affect fish,and which to me is therefore structure,are recognizable and combinable with some thought.
Finally you have two critical structures out there nearly as important in my view as bait.The surface(busiest place there is for big muskies-where extremes of noise,temp,wind and water movement,light,oxygen etc are at their greatest)and the bottom.Not the sterile actual bottom,but the bottom of the photo zone,that murky light deprived twi lite zone where muskies can quite easily ambush prey above or prey coming through to get to the meaningful food zone.
Weather, light conditions,bait depth and other ‘structure’present,often will suggest whether to focus on the surface or just above that bottom,but its hard to argue with keeping it simple and focusing on one or the other.If two or more are in the boat,try both.
Well folks,hopefully this has made some sense and you’ll agree its not futile out there,that there really is less area and water than you thought to concentrate on,and that with some thought on your part there can be method to the madness of going ‘out there’.
Catch-and release-the fish of your dreams this fall!
Remember:thinking is just being thoughtful.
See you next issue.
Dick

[dpear]

Mike,
Didn't get time to reply and leaving again tomorrow for a few days.Your answers are sort of in the 'out there' blip though.
Here's my final for awhile.Soul fishing!!!:)
The older I get,the more relevant the following has become.Guess I really am a social recluse.


FISHING ALONE

Hi Folks.Years ago I used to fish alone a lot.I still do occasionally but actually wish I could do more of it-and hopefully will be able to.Back in the day it often was because I was obsessed with exploring new waters on the Canadian Shield and few were willing to fish as long or hard as I did then-or,to be honest,they insisted on acting responsibly toward their jobs and families.But really,its always been more than that,I truly enjoy fishing alone.
Why?A myriad of reasons really but what follows are the main ones plus a discussion of what I believe are some issues to consider when doing so.
First and foremost I suspect I love fishing alone because I really am sort of what a friend calls a ‘soul fishermen’.Not necessarily religious,not one to try save souls,not that meaning at all.Rather someone that loves the outdoors,appreciates nature and fishes for a lot more than fish.Outdoors I find what I need to survive and maintain some sort of balance.Part is the solitude and serenity but its much more and very hard to describe.I’m retired now but back in the day I had a very stressful job.When at work,I worked long,hard and intensely.With my emotional set up,I believe it was crucial for me to get away,alone,to clear my mind of problems and stress- get restored if you will.Being alone doesn’t make that automatically happen by any means but being alone and aware of and appreciating your surroundings sure works for me.
Most of my friends are soul fishermen and share my feelings and views but we all agree it’s a process and a part of the overall fishing experience that all can appreciate if they want.In my Spring 2006 column I suggested we all ask ourselves why we fish,and specifically why we fish muskies.I suggested answering those questions honestly would help us focus more on our fishing experience and lead to more enjoyment.Now let me challenge you a bit more.Test yourself as to how aware you are of your surroundings while fishing.What are you seeing?What are you hearing?.Its a magnificent world we are in if we are really aware of our surroundings.In a day of fishing how many different birds or animals are you seeing?How many natural sounds are you hearing?How many different types of trees,clouds or colors are you seeing?.Awareness,to me,is a large part of fishing.
I know,I know,some of you are saying,’hey this is a fishing magazine,what does all this awareness crap have to do with fishing?’I believe a lot.With awareness and appreciation of the outdoors comes knowledge.Knowledge of how things work-including fish.Awareness puts you in touch with weather and wildlife-above and below the water.Awareness allows you to see how this all works,how it all fits together and be a better angler because of it.Knowledge really is power.I tried to suggest the importance of awareness in my book and DVD,’Muskies On The Shield’, so if you have read or seen those hopefully this will be easier to understand.
Okay enough soul stuff.Another reason I like to fish alone is it allows me to test things.For instance ideas and theories.Many of my views on wind,current,walls,deep structure and so on were formed while fishing alone.When alone there are few distractions or restraints.Nothing is stupid and anything goes when it comes to experimentation.Think it- try it.Sometimes it works-and gives great satisfaction.
The same is true with lures and techniques.When with others its often hard to devote realistic amounts of time to experimentation.Want to speed troll with jigs and plastics?Want to find out how fast you can troll a Jake or a 5 oz Grinder behind cowbells,or park your boat and get out and wade a sand beach to more effectively work a matted shoreline cabbage bed?Its very hard to devote significant time to trying these type things,or really anything new or experimental,unless you’re alone.
Fishing alone also allows me to test the theories and ideas of others as well.For instance,the time tested In Fishermen formula of F+L+P=S was something I tested and tried to tweak for years.(to no avail for the most part)Their system is still the best and most logical way to approach fishing in my view but in the process of fishing alone and testing it,I learned a lot and developed my own way of applying the formula that usually allows me to make fish contact easier when exploring new waters
Finally,fishing alone lets me test myself a bit-in many ways.Can I ‘think’ and then catch fish alone on a new lake-whether a small lake a few miles down the road or a massive river system or lake in the wilds of Canada?Do I have what it takes to be alone in certain places and the will and knowledge to do it safely?(see sidebar on common sense safety issues)In my view testing oneself is a crucial part of discovering what fishing and life in general is all about.
Well I’ll conclude this rambling but I urge you to give fishing alone a try.Treat yourself,learn a bit about yourself,you deserve it.I’ll bet fishing alone once in awhile will not only make you a better angler and more appreciative of the total experience,but a more aware and happier person in general.
Good fishing!

Remember:thinking is just being thoughtful.

See you next issue.
Dick

SIDEBAR
What follows is not an attempt to be politically correct and protect you from yourself,but rather a few safety and other considerations when fishing alone.The list is largely common sense or,as to a couple,things I’ve run afoul of over the years.
1.If going to a wild rather unpopulated lake or river system,leave word with someone as to your plans and proposed fishing area.
2.Be conscious of weather and act accordingly.I like to fish during storms but in most cases I know it’s foolish.At least have an intelligent awareness of the risks.
3.Consider wearing a PFD all the time but certainly do so if alone when fishing in wind or bad weather or when traveling.As a few friends know,my failure to do so a couple years ago nearly cost me my life.In wind and big rollers,if you go in,the odds of catching up to your boat and getting back in are 50-50 at best in my view.(if you go in and manage to catch back up to your drifting boat,you will likely be very weak and have trouble getting back into the boat.Trust me on this.If you have power trim and tilt,take the elevator by standing on the trim tab and pushing the trim button on the side of the motor.)
4.If trying to explore and cover lots of water,consider using “crescent wrench”baits,like say a spinner bait,that works in nearly any kind of structure or situation you encounter.(shallow,deep,rocks,weeds,etc.)As to baits,when alone,be aware of the risks and dangers inherent in getting ‘hooked’to a fish.A serious danger and one to be prepared for.Have the necessary tools and first aid kit.Consider going barbless.
5.Along those lines,you must plan for the ‘release’.If you have little experience releasing fish you may not want to fish alone-for your safety and/or the safety of the fish.This subject could constitute an entire article but think through and prepare for the ramifications of releasing a big muskie while alone.Again,consider going barbless.Maybe single hook barbless in rough weather,the dark,etc.
6.Plan for emergencies.First aid,extra clothes,shelter,food and water.If you have my mechanical skills,take an extra of all the above-all the time.Good fishing!

[lambeau]

Dick...curse you, you've sent me spinning and thinking. fun winter digestion stuff!
i've pulled out my Esox Angler mags to glean through your columns again. man i miss that magazine...

one of my goals is to try and work on having more confidence in trying "outside the box" approaches, which can be hard for me to do when on limited vacation time.

[dpear]

Mike,
Get Henry to help,you'll be fine then.

[dpear]

Just a heads up.
Every once in awhile my home chapter of MI,Saint Cloud,is crazy enough to pay me to 'talk' about something weird and because of my connection and friends there I agree,despite being 'retired'.Tomorrow nite is one of those occasions.If you live nearby,like this kind of 'stuff' I rave on about here,stop by,there's no cover charge and I'll be waxing less than eloquently on 'Big Fish Spots'.

[bozo]

Oh and speak he did! He was introduced as "A man who's name is associated with perfection, Mr. Dick Pearson!" It could only get better from there. Seriously, thanks Dick for sharing a few brain cells with us. I'm always able to walk away with some slices of wisdom that I fail to apply properly.

Now get back home and get going on that book.

[dpear]

At least when he said the 'perfection' thing I was the 1st to burst out laughing.
Good group of people.One of the best post-talk Q&A sessions I've ever had.Think we all learned a bit.

[dpear]

Henry Stommel.

[lambeau]

Henry #1 just giggled at me.
Henry #2 mumbled something about water conveyor belts.

so...current moves one way across the surface of a body of water, and may return through deep channels.
so...find where those deep channel currents run, and especially where they contact deep structure?

[dpear]

Wouldn't hurt to try every now and then IMO.

[dpear]

Hi all.A favor to ask.Anyone out there have any experience trolling surface lures you'd be willing to share?I've done a bit,have a friend or two that has done more but recently had some input on an InFish article due out in May which has got me going on something else.
If you'd prefer not to do it publicly,feel free to e-mail me.
(pearsondp@yahoo.com)
Thanks,
Dick

[Tim Kelly]

Just a thought, but if you were going to troll a tallywhacker type bait, it might be worthwhile either moving the nose attachment to one side of the lure's "face" , or maybe attaching a small blade to the side of the "face" to make the bait plane out to the side, so it's not directly behind the boat. Sort of fish catching side planer.

[dpear]

Hi Tim.Exactly!Tweaking to improve 'operation' is a necessary part of the surface trolling scene at this time for the most part.Creative minds haven't 'gone there' yet and what a shame it is.The 'ultimate edge' and yet few tools to explore it fast and efficiently.
Anybody out there trolling existing salt water 'squid type'/sailfish type baits at high speed?
Anyway,thanks for the input Tim.

[JBlanck]

Caught one once on a smaller "local" lake that has a prominent milfoil weedline. We had a Rapala Shad Rap straight back off the deeper side of the weed edge and a smaller planer board up over the weeds with a Super Topraider about 15' behind that. We zig-zagged on and off the weed edge and it hit when the surface bait went a little slower while turning back towards to the weeds. There was actually discussion about putting the lure right up next to the board in case the fish was attracted to the planer board, but we talked ourselves out of it since the back end of the planer board sinks a little when pulled. We tried a Thunderhead since it throws so much water we thought it would over rule the planer board attraction but we had trouble with line twist like you get from trolling a bucktail. I still like the idea but it would need some sort of keel weight at the line/leader connection to let the swivel work out the twists. Casting took over before I could get much further into it. I've thought about it for the times we are eating a sandwhich on LOTW. Great way to keep the chances of catching fish higher.

Jeff

[Tim Kelly]

I think a mod like this might be quite effective?

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/Tim--Kelly/tallywhacker.jpg

If it works like I imagine you could obviously put an attachment point on the other side of the face, so you could run it on either side of the boat.

[dpear]

When I mentioned creative minds I frankly didn't expect to hear from Jeff but.....
I think we've got this discussion rolling a bit now.I've taken the liberty of contacting Frankies uncle Viktor from 'Badass Baits' about this and he and his staff are on it.Here's a short blip on Viktor and his crew.This shows their seriousness and their 'warm up' activities before starting each shift.
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/leonov.html

[JBlanck]

When I mentioned creative minds I frankly didn't expect to hear from Jeff but.....I wonder what he meant by that...huh.

Tim, that would be fun to cast also. The faster you go the farther to the side it goes. Could be pretty cool. The closest I've come to that concept is while working a Jackpot. You see a weed on the surface that you want to miss and you twitch the Jackpot with your pauses short, loooong, short, loooong, short, loooong and you can let it coast and move it to the side a little. Kind of fun to do when things are slow.

Speaking of slow...how ya doing dp?

Jeff

[dpear]

Doing OK Jeff-slowly.
Was away attending the funeral of a good friends 16 yr old son.Man does that put a lot of things in perspective.On topic,while awaiting the start of services a screen was showing pics of his life and a few were very familiar muskie scenes.A couple were of him holding muskies and if memory serves,I think they were caught on surface baits.Was tough on this old man.More later.

[lambeau]

sad news about your friend's son, Dick, thinking of you and them. Becky attended a wake for a 14-yr-old student on Friday; very sad indeed when someone so young passes.

Erik Jacobson and Brian Hanson of "Just Big Muskies" do some topwater trolling and caught a few nice fish doing it in their most recent video. i think they were using the electric motor and pulling baits on the big flats of Mille Lacs. at the end of the video they say they're willing to talk to anyone who contacts them; info is on their website: http://www.justbigmuskies.com/

some guys around here use standard planer boards to push topwaters up over the milfoil. getting a good hook-set is the trouble of course, though if you're getting strikes that wouldn't happen otherwise it would be worth those misses.

another idea i've heard people try is the "dual fin" planer board. a neat trick with this is the ability to flip it over so it planes in the opposite direction. you can actually get a bait to zig-zag with this, or use it to steer a bait in and out by driving it precisely around pieces of structure. if the bait was relatively close behind this type of board and you held the rod in your hands you might be able to get a good hook-set without much slack line. (this is theory, not first-hand experience for me.) http://www.bulletbobber.com/dualfin.html

[lambeau]

Or how about an adaptation of an umbrella rig, like a wing of top water props trailed by a topraider?

[dpear]

Good stuff.Now we are getting somewhere.I think.Keep it coming.
Was just reminded that this thread has gone over 10,000 hits.Wow,should we move on or keep going?Been fun but is it too unwieldy?Blame Fishwizard,not me,he won't shut up.

Anyway,recently we've discussed some good stuff.I know the target is 'out there'.I know how to reduce the meaningful water out there(shrink the box).I know to key on 'movement' and bait concentrations.I know the surface is a great edge to focus on.I know speed 'triggers' and can make me more efficient- especially at certain times and under certain conditions(high riding bait for instance).So how about lures like these-traveling up to 20 knots? http://www.candhlures.com/Wahoo-Lures/
Courtesy of a Florida friend who also is a muskie guy-LOTWs muskie guy sometimes.A few here may recall some years ago when I tinkered with these types of lures.Never really gave them much of a chance-hard because of the companion laughter and ridicule and the fact no other bait was compatible in terms of speed.Sooooo,instead of practicing what I preach,ie,'Fish Alone',I converted them to jerk baits and promptly destroyed them since they aren't a numbers bait for sure.NOT this time!!!!!!

[dpear]

While reviewing baits such as the Mr Big,see: http://www.candhlures.com/wahoo-lures/mr-big-rubber-skirt.html ,I was reminded of the extreme expense and the rigging hassles I had experienced.(using one treble and light through wire).
So,will one of you creative minds please make rigged baits similar to these using poor mans muskie materials?Please consider the vented head and the 'smoke screen' concept which appears to be new since I explored these options awhile back and which may have merit 'out there'.
THANKS!!!

[dpear]

I'm leaving shortly to deal with wave after wave of snow geese that are crapping on my roof but need to respond to an e-mail I just received from a 'friend' regarding this thread.

YES,my new Evinrude will go 20 knots(23 mph)so I will be able to troll these lures.

[lambeau]

YES,my new Evinrude will go 20 knots(23 mph)so I will be able to troll these lures.
very interesting; i've heard of people toying with these high-speed saltwater baits for muskies but haven't heard about results...is that because they didn't work well or because no one wants to let the secret out???

and i know plenty of guys are speed trolling, especially places like LStClair, but 15-25mph? wow. those big saltwater fish are built for speed and endurance...a muskie can swim that fast easily, at least for short bursts, but will it expend the energy to chase down food moving that fast?
only one way to find out, eh? let me know how you do. ;-)

what do you think about these slightly smaller ones? they can be trolled at speeds in the 5-10mph range and are wayyy more affordable.
http://www.candhlures.com/billy-baits-small-game-kit.html
maybe try one with a bucktail blade rigged in front of the leader for some added thump?

[dpear]

Why do you think Frankie bought a high speed air boat?

[dpear]

Speaking of Frankie,went to the Operation Muskie website,clicked on the Flag Island web cam and scanned the area closely.Pretty sure I caught Frankie 'working' the open water around the Red Buoy.Looked like a double 10(red/copper of course).

[Muskie Junkie]

There aren't any fish over at the Red Bouy, the spot is overrated. ;)

[lambeau]

Speaking of Frankie,went to the Operation Muskie website,clicked on the Flag Island web cam and scanned the area closely.Pretty sure I caught Frankie 'working' the open water around the Red Buoy.Looked like a double 10(red/copper of course).

see now, Dick, that's just not nice to do to a guy in MARCH...

[dpear]

Steve and Mike;I agree.

[dpear]

Rig up for use between not too distant casting spots?


http://www.floridasportsman.com/2011/05/16/gear_g_9807_high/

[Tim Kelly]

LOL! Looks like Frank's going to have to get the big tranquillizer gun ready for summer. :o

[dpear]

I received an e-mail saying the ERC references in this thread to some older articles of mine no longer worked.Just checked and that's right but I searched the Drifter website and located it again.
See:http://www.driftertackle.net/category/drifter-campus/pearsons-corner/
I know they have started and are continuing to revamp their site and I assume that's why the difficulty.For what it's worth after meeting with the owners last weekend in Mpls i may be doing some writing and other things for them in the near future.

[dpear]

Steve,
The red buoy is now officially off limits for you.Sorry,it's a fish free zone.

[Muskie Junkie]

Steve,
The red buoy is now officially off limits for you.Sorry,it's a fish free zone.


Sounds like some covert operations will be necessary under the stealth of darkness. :cool:

[Frank Walsh]

Oops, I did not get the memo. Currently it is not a "fish free" zone. But will be within two weeks!!!!!!

[dpear]

Just a warning to the general public.Just agreed with Tri-Esox Shows to 'unretire' for one more talk in Chicago.That talk will likely be on 'Water Movement and Muskies' and cover some of the things discussed here.It will be on Sunday so all the Bear fans are safe but the rest of you need to plan around Sunday and make sure you are out of town.You've been warned.

And,I'd better add I just got topo maps of the area in New Mexico I'll be bowhunting(alone)elk in and the talk,of course,assumes I don't 'tip over' while trying to survive above 10K feet for 10 days or so.

[dpear]

Started to get ready for my Chicago talk.Likely total confusion to try make 'Muskies and Water Movement' a beneficial talk unless people have a background of some of the issues discussed in this longggg thread.
We'll see.

By the way,likely good Metallica didn't show up.Would have been hard on the store cabin.

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIGWpehQBS8Arxn7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTBvZ3 AycDJsBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDVjEzMA--?p=metallica+songs&vid=6f58b8d4007a979783f880143c91613b&l=4%3A45&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DV.47 20028188278784%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dws rvmNtWU4E&tit=Metallica+-+Whiskey+In+The+Jar+%28Video%29&c=8&sigr=11ajoag17&

[Tim Kelly]

Good luck with the talk.

I prefer the Thin Lizzy version http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIF7cOpQzFYA8IX8w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTEyOX M4OTBiBHNlYwNjZC1zcgRzbGsDdmlkLXNlYXJjaAR2dGlkA1Yx MTY-?c=0&l=&p=thin%20lizzy%20whiskey&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymotion.com%2Fvideo%2Fxd 29j_thin-lizzy-whiskey-in-the-jar_music&sigr=12aasqqjd&tit=Thin%20Lizzy%20-%20Whiskey%20In%20The%20Jar&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DV.46 52970842193920%26pid%3D15.1&vid=dd1c69b536e47f0a5c0d26760f8cf3c6&tt=b , but the Metallica video is more entertaining. Don't think I'd invite them to the cabin opening party though either. LOL

[dpear]

Good stuff Tim-vintage but good.

I've always been a bit conflicted by the song. "Now some men like a fishin but some men like the fowlin.." I've always liked both.
Of course there was a time I'd have been interested in 'Molly's chamber' and a tad of 'Whisky in the jaro' as well.:o

[dpear]

My seminar is way to broad to try cover or make meaningful in 45-60 minutes so got Frankies permission to post some 'background' info here and direct others to it-material I'll only have time to mention briefly in Chicago.Of course me doing it has turned into a cyber joke so need to get the 'boss' on it.Hopefully in the next few days.
Anyway,hope to see a few of you illinois boys and girls there.(except Jeff of course).

[dpear]

Will try post a couple old EA articles on 'Wind',one page at a time.Hopefully keep clicking to enlarge and make readable.1910719108191091911119112

[dpear]

First part of Article.Pete wisely bailed on the second part.:o
1911319123191241912519126191271912819129

[dpear]

Final pages.
1913019131

[dpear]

Really? 17,000 hits?
Fishwizard,start a new one.

[fishwizard]

Really? 17,000 hits?
Fishwizard,start a new one.

I believe I could ask the same questions again using different words and get another 17k in interest, as long as you and Doug throw some gamma waves in its direction.


Ryan

Give me a little time to consolidate my thoughts and I will roll out another philosophical tête-à-tête with the rest muskie hopeful clamoring to join in.
Less than two weeks now and you'll have to entertain my Quanderous (not really a word) pleading in person on ideas for how I will ever catch one of those elusive 8.14 dollar bills long fish.

[dpear]

Water movement;water temps;August;adaptability=the realization of dreams.
Take out water movement=nightmare city.

[dpear]

Water movement under the ice?Frankie,reefs,rainbows and walnettos.Stay tuned.

[dpear]

Speaking of Frankie,is it coincidence that his name keeps popping up in our language?
'Frankly';'Frankness',etc.
I mean you don't use 'Dickly';'Dickness' etc.
Is it fair?I don't think so.
On the other hand,face it,he IS an adverb whereas since I'm often told I'm a 'Dick',I must be a noun-that is,a unique entity.
There now I feel better and can go hunting.

[dpear]

If all surface water is trying to reach sea level due to gravity,should we be thinking about 'gravity' a bit?

[dpear]

Nah,forget it.

[dpear]

This goes into the 'for what it's worth' bucket.
Yesterday I had a long but interesting discussion with a friend I hadn't talked to in quite awhile.This guy is 'A' rated and spends most of his time fishing 'gin bottles'(clear 'trout' type waters).The subject of LOTWs and increasing water clarity came up and the discussion got very interesting.Again,for what it's worth,here's a couple points we agreed on if the clarity trend continues:
1.Trout water tactics(depth,lures,structure,weather,'light' conditions etc)will become more important.
2.Secondary and particularly non-traditional structure will become more important.
3.Trolling will become more than just a Fall tactic.A couple things here really got me thinking and now that I have Frankies old Alaskan,complete with top(sun screen),I may have to sit back,sip non alcoholic mint juleps and troll more mid days and during ''high skies'.Not a bad deal for an old man anyway.:-)

[dpear]

One more darn thing-for you scientists.Does moving water resist freezing cause it's warmer?Friction?

[fishwizard]

I'm pretty sure you already know the answer to this, but for the sake of discussion here you go.

There are several parts to this answer, and I don't claim to know them all. Also, not a scientist, so take my answer for what you will.

Moving water is mixing water, and has higher kinetic and internal energy. Yes, "friction" does occur among the H2O molecules, but plays a smaller part in keeping the water from freezing than the mixing with warmer water. Water freezes by convection to the air due to the presence of temperature gradient. Water is cooled by colder air. The colder the air, the larger the gradient, the quicker this occurs. If the water is not moving the surface molecules will be in constant contact with the air and will cool and freeze (stop moving) more quickly. But with moving water the molecules that were on the surface a second ago cooling towards freezing, are now being mixed with warmer molecules below the surface slowing if not mostly undoing the cooling that had occurred from the convection from the air.

Like I said, there is more to it than that, but mixing and "interrupting" the convection occurring is the greatest reason moving water doesn't freeze.

Ryan

[dpear]

Ryan,
As usual,you are my hero.Thank you.'Gradient' was the thought/word I needed to jump start a stalled mind when trying to think through cold fronts.Good stuff.

[Frank Walsh]

Or............


A rolling stone gathers no moss.

But dragging a spinnerbait does.

[dpear]

I get slime,not moss.Also,need you to rig up a couple of weighted 'bulls' with D10 blades for me,I have some stories for you.Please get on it,I know you have nothing to do but sit by the fire and watch Fiona this time of year anyways.

[Muskie Junkie]

Ok, I am really late to the dance on this one but for some reason I could not get my login to work. Regardless, DP, you mentioned water clarity. Last year I really noticed that the water was definately much clearer, to the point where I felt that the "flame" blades were no where near as effective as in years past. That and I noticed other colors showed better and actually out produced my LOTW go to flame. I thought this was from a lack of bloom in the water since in July we did not encounter much and very little in August. Am I imagining this or are we truly seeing a water clarity change?

[dpear]

Very true Steve.

[Muskie Junkie]

Sorry DP, did not realize this was being discussed in depth on the Year in Review thread until I read that this morning. I try to pay closer attention. :rolleyes:

[dpear]

I'll throw out another observation-valid or not.IMO the incredible bait concentrations that I often keyed on in the past have,with 1 or 2 exceptions,disappeared.I'm not saying the lakes 'fertility' has changed(maybe it has or is) but that certain areas that nearly always 'blacked out' your graph no longer do.
Implications?I think so,I have(likely far-fetched)thoughts on it,but.....Is it related to water clarity and simply a dispersion of bait?
I guess all I'll say is think about it.All told,I suspect lots of new 'hot spots' will emerge.Some that in the past would never have been given a cast-or trolling pass.

[dpear]

While looking for info on water clarity I ran across this.Couple of interesting points made but was interested in the Rusty Crawfish tidbits.
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/lakefind/showreport.html?downum=39000200

[AndrewH]

That is very interesting. I was very misunderstood on how long the rusty have been in the Ontario section. Perhaps another factor or element contributing to our recent weed loss???

[dpear]

Hi Andrew.Yeh I'm pretty sure they are the main reason behind the weed issues.What really surprised me though is that they have been in the system since the 1960s.

[dpear]

Too old to go early in this weather so will post a point i've been putting off awhile.This has been a year,still is,that allows one to 'see' water movement unlike ever before.High water,dams wide open,lot's of wind means flow patterns have never been more obvious in my years on the lake.IMO a real opportunity for those that believe water movement is a key factor in fish location.
Some revelations have been stunning.A relative new spot Frankie and I have had success at consistently had a 'river within a lake' flowing across it 2 days ago that was very obvious.One edge of it so strong it was hard to pull against it even using the wind.And they were there.And some were big.:-)Suddenly a weird spot and structure found by accident made sense.
And for those interested in doing the Bondy bait thing in deep current,well this year is Christmas near every day.Gotten to know a Canadian guide pretty well and the 'numbers' possible doing that this year in multiple locations are amazing.
Get out there and observe if you can,some new spots will pay for years.Good fishing!

[JBlanck]

That's interesting Dick. We have always experienced some of our tried and true areas that were not as good with heavy current (indicator being buoy was leaning over too far) compared to when it had light current. My findings have usually been the following:
Light current - best
Changing current (coming back from high wind push)- very good
Little/no current - good (maybe fish staging for/from current)
Heavy current - worst

Obviously, the fish didn't just swim away, but maybe they just relocated on the spot? Maybe moved deeper? We did experience that, one year, when the fish moved deeper on a current spot (we call the S curve, I know you know where that is) that we found the fish by counting down tandems and using bull dawgs. They were high on the spot/structure one day when it had changing current and moved off to the deeper channel the next day when it went calm. We figured they couldn't have moved far so we went out into the channel and there they were. Maybe the case is the same for heavy current but we just haven't tried it yet.

Are you experiencing this in areas that are not the classic current areas near channels?

Jeff

[Tim Kelly]

Interesting. Do you find the fish hold in the current, or in the slacks off the current, like they might in a river?

[dpear]

Jeff n Tim,not sure there are clear cut answers to your Qs.What I am sure about is that they will be somewhere near it when it exists.I think they relate to strong current like in a river for the most part but there are exceptions to that as well.Many 'Bondy' fish are caught in VERY strong current.Many times we've caught fish with them when it's hard to 'hold' in it and impossible to fish straight down even though the large Bondys are quite heavy.
As to wind current,there are so many variables and sudden changes(strength,duration,depth and direction)it's hard to say when it's best to fish.There are times it appears too strong yet that strength may make a spot fishable that otherwise is impossible cause of weedgrowth,algae or whatever.
I could write a book(actually started one once)on my theories but that's all they'd be,theories.The more I fish the more important I think it is but the more exceptions to general rules I find.I know if you find 'rivers within lakes',you have found a great spot to fish nearly anytime weather and other factors are favorable.

[dpear]

Received some great info from a member here on 'rivers within lakes' and he asked about lunar effects and current.Too complicated for me so I fish when I can and focus more on weather BUT said remember,the 'moon' thing is the same,it's all about 'water movement' and keying on it.
http://www.trails.com/about_5178_moon-phases-effects-fishing.html

[Tim Kelly]

I read somewhere that the moon related tide on a lake as large as lake superior was negligible, something like an inch or so of measurable change. Hard to imagine it would be noticeable for the fish or the angler?

[dpear]

I hear ya Tim,the moon thing is way beyond me.

[glp]

Ya gotta look at the cows, if they are laying down, turn around and go back to sleep!
Of course, it may be kinda hard to find a cow up in your area?
GLP

[Tim Kelly]

Maybe the next big accessory? The Strike King KVD Camp Cow. Better than moon charts or electronics, it will tell you whether you even need to get up to go fishing or not. I can see this thing selling! Might be interesting seeing them with sponsor's wraps on them too.

[dpear]

Heard from a friend and Op M guide who has a place on the Winnipeg River system north of Kenora.He has recently caught muskies jigging and 'dawging' right in extreme current.(full power on trolling motor to hold)No doubt they are right in it at times.I suspect 'feeding' is one of the times.

[dpear]

As usual I browse near every article I see dealing with current.Here's a quote from a bass article I just read.Interesting to ponder awhile.Brings back some experiences I've had fishing 'rivers within a lake' and places like the English River.I even recall times years ago(over 30 yrs ago) on Lac Suel where I put the 10 Believers away n threw Jakes or Grammas.One of those things one never fully thinks through perhaps-but should.Think there is a little meat on this bone.

"Because of their design, flat-sided crankbaits handle current better than rounded baits. They're less affected by the flow and tend to dive and "hunt" immediately, making them more productive in the early part of the retrieve. Rounded baits seem to struggle to right themselves at the beginning of the retrieve, and their hooks will foul more often.

Especially when you're targeting shallow water cover in current, that little advantage for flat-sided baits can be a big deal.

Locate, catch and win!"

[musky1969]

You expect us too believe you remember things from 30 years ago !!!!! Come on :cool:
Hope to see you up in August.
Darren

[dpear]

I can't remember my name or your name(related to a former Prez though I think)but I remember about 4,967 reefs in detail that I could hit or catch fish on in about 50 different shield lakes and doubt I ever forgot a good lure.I do remember Carole and even a few of her predecessors though.:-)
Yup,see ya in August.

[Lynne D]

Dick, get your heavy dbl tens. Did you try a 5,6,or 8 oz spinnerbait. 5 ozer is manageable to cast, But I tend to troll them mostly.
JIm and Lynne

[dpear]

Jim you should feel sorry for the ol man n get me one of them 6-8 oz Sp baits.I have a use planned for them this year.

[fish_wizard]

29k views over 4 years?!?

I think there are books out there that haven't been read that much.

[dpear]

No offense but I think it was 'dumb founded'.:cool:

[fish_wizard]

Can't argue that.

But, a catchy title and insightful content from the experts goes a long way.

[dpear]

Aw shucks,can't even start a fight anymore.When you coming up?It's a year to study current.Too much of a good thing actually.Also,sure you remember filming a 50 I caught on a pink Suick-film we never used as I'm sure you recall.I have new pink Suick stories for you.:)

[fish_wizard]

I'll be there in 4 weeks.

I vaguely recall the 50" on the pink suick, but not why the footage was no good.

I definitely remember the suick muskie that you had hit and not hook up while I was busy getting the camera ready. Just across the way from the grinder spot. Always remember the big ones that get away. Speaking of grinders and fish that got away, I also remember that one on Four Rocks with the blade just fluttering along on the fishes cheek swimming right at the boat. You ever think about that one?

[dpear]

Never happened.

[dpear]

Location,location,location.Whether real estate or fishing it's obviously key.Many of us are wondering where the 'bigs' are located this year and I can now answer that ? with respect to one at least.Yesterday I was headed from the Angle to Warroad in the batmobile.Maybe about 45 minutes into the trip I see a huge white raft of something ahead on the horizon.As I get closer I realize it's pelicans,comorants and gulls and they apparently have found a big mess of baitfish.As I'm going by about 80-100 yds away I'm astounded to see a 'big' explode out n go completely airborne apparently chasing one of many bait fish also flying out trying to escape.
I'm stunned and stop a minute or 2 but no repeat.As I'm sitting there I look around and there is no land in sight in any direction.I think about punching in a waypoint but then I realize heck,no problem,I can find this spot by dead reckoning.If interested all you need to do is head SW from Garden Island til the western shoreline is no longer visible.Travel about 11 minutes more at approximately 35 mph and look for the white raft on the horizon-voila,there you are,you've found a 'big'.
Good fishing.

[musky1969]

And probably not another musky boat in site!!!!!! The new frontier ;)

[dpear]

Just got to post this.A friend and top notch fisherman recently informed me about a very unique feat.Last saturday he caught a fish in a narrow current channel that measured 48.75 inches.Nice you say but..????

Well he also had caught the same fish in 2010 when she measured 49.25.Again,nice,and perhaps not that unusual right?

But,turns out he caught her in twice in July of 2012,2 days apart,and she measured 50.Now i suspect everyone would agree we are getting a bit unusual correct?

Not really when you consider he also caught her in August of 2013 when she was still 50.

5 times over 6 yrs.In a 100 yd stretch of water.Now we are talking unusual-and a real accomplishment.For man and fish.
All gospel,all fact.Good fishing!

[musky1969]

So the fish shrunk when it got older ?

[dpear]

Yes but most of that was due to a missing chunk of tail this last catch-and release.Speaks volumes about catch and careful release.

[dpear]

Guess this thread won't die so may add a few things in the process of cleaning out some computer space.
Primarily an old Article or 2 from Esox Angler or elsewhere.Some REAL old so....getting what you paid for most likely)

BE IT RESOLVED,�����..

Hi Folks.Well its that time again,time to think about and set my goals for the upcoming season.What follows are some resolutions I intend to pursue this year and hopefully you�ll find something informative and helpful here.
First I�m definitely going to fish some new water.That used to be my thing but recently I�ve let the �business�of muskie fishing deter me from scouting new waters and that will now end.It isn�t just that I like to see whats over the next hill,or that I may find a new big fish nirvana,its that fishing new waters is a challenge that tests your skills and knowledge.I�m a person that tends to do the �same old,same old� if I�m not challenged so its clearly time to get back on the road.Where?Lots of options out there.Eastern Canada?New lakes in the States?Maybe the Great Lakes-now there�s some serious new water to explore.
Mainly though,my resolutions deal with new presentations.The more I experiment with presentations the more I realize the only rule when it comes to muskies is that there are no rules!The last couple of seasons have been amazing.Whether its high speed short line trolling of 5oz Grinders in heavy weeds or pausing(totally stopping)surface baits for extended periods of time,most anything seems to work if given a fair chance.Couple that with ever increasing pressure,pressure utilizing largely traditional presentations, and the idea of trying new things makes great sense.
Given that I hope to be on new water quite often this year-therefore having to efficiently cover lots of water-many of my resolutions have to do with trolling.Here are a few of them:
1.High speed surface baiting.Trolling surface baits has been going on for a long time-heck some friends from Thorne Bros Tackle in the Twin Cities have been doing it at pretty good speeds as well for years-but that�s not what I�m talking about.I�m talking about really high speeds-with strange lures.
This idea first occurred to me many years ago on Leech Lake in northern Minnesota after observing schools of muskies chasing schools of tulibees on the surface.The tulies dancing, darting and leaping out of the water,the muskies chasing.High speed chasing.Just like bass and shad or sailfish or marlin chasing those squid type lures on TV.(I�ll digress here with a bit of history.I think this is likely how the �walk the dog�thing-�crackpotting�if you will- got started with respect to muskies.I think it was this chasing of tulibees by muskies on Leech that led a respected guide,Dick Pence,to develop what I believe was the first �crackpot�lure designed for muskies.)Regardless, I intend to pursue it with salt water high speed lures or modified existing lures such as weighted Docs or Lee Lures,unweighted Sledges,Hell Hounds,etc.
I know.I know,I�m crazy because even if they chase them,hooking them will be a different story.Perhaps but tulibees get eaten,squid lures get nailed,so�One thing for sure,I believe they�ll chase them like crazy-especially out over open water-and then at least I�ll know where they are.We can all agree that�s not a bad thing.
2.Use of trollings aids/devices/trinkets/attractants/whatever you call them.
My friends at Cat�s Tails Tackle have convinced me to try bucktails trolled behind Dipsy Divers(52 inchers will do that to me)but what about other lures?I just have to try jerk baits such as Hell Hounds and Suicks.
What about using attractants in front of or around our lures?Remember Cowbells-that leader full of flashing beads and blades in front of your lure?Or Dodgers,most often used for salmon or trout?Talk about flash,vibes,appeal to lateral lines!Years ago I went there and after only a couple of hours of trolling I remember that big muskie flying out with the Cowbells,not my lure,in its mouth.I gave up the idea shortly after that.Hello???If I�d given up on every lure or idea I lost a muskie on I�d have run out of ammo and had to quit long ago.Nope I suspect it was my dislike for trolling in those days that caused me to give up what I believe is a solid idea for attracting and catching muskies.I�ll be trying them again this year.(Please,will someone start producing muskie size,muskie quality versions of these attractants?)
Finally,this year I�ll also be trying planer boards coupled with surface baits along walls,windswept shorelines and over shallow reefs and rock flats.Running them in and across areas my boat can�t get to under the conditions.
3.Now my favorite resolution.One I�m sure will put big fish in my boat-or yours.I�ll call it �rattling up�a muskie since the idea came to me while in a bow stand �banging bones�(I know,technically its antlers)trying to attract a trophy whitetail.
In the past I�ve written and talked about my trolling experiences.How I�ve gotten pretty effective trolling,even in open water situations,but that nearly all of my big fish caught trolling have been on or near traditional structure,often striking right after lure contact with that structure.(the tactic does not seem to work early in the season however,possibly because the big girls simply aren�t there or aren�t in the aggressive feeding mode due to spawning.)
I consider rattling for deer an aggressive tactic and it occurred to me that at times maybe I�m not aggressive enough when I�m hunting for big muskies.I started thinking why don�t I get more aggressive toward big muskies by banging structure instead of horns.Its a proven tactic that I�ve really never thought through and likely have underutilized.Sure I�ll purposely bang a point or the tip of a reef a few times,probably at different depths,and sure I�ll occasionally dip in toward a structure break and bang something,but why not get really serious,really aggressive,and bang structure a lot?Why not make banging structure the rule rather than the exception at times,make it the primary trolling goal-bang as much structure,at various depths(never below the twilight zone,the zone within which photosynthesis takes place,however.)as possible?Pass after pass,structure after structure,over and back,across,down the sides,repeatedly.
Good questions.Ones I suspect should have been asked before.This year I will and bet the number of big fish I catch increases substantially.
4.Finally,I resolve to ask myself more often;Why do I fish?Why do I fish muskies?
This past year I run to Mille Lacs lake and see 20 boats fishing the area I�d planned to fish and I ask,as I depart, why?What enjoyment could they be getting out of that?
Or I arrive at a favorite spot on million acre Lake of The Woods and see 2 or 3 boats already there and think the same thoughts as I again depart.
Or I read about a muskie tournament with 50(or more) boats and think why would anyone want to try catch this elusive fish with that many others(often others with tremendous skills)on the body of water at the same time?
In both instances I think,don�t they get it?Good god where�s the solitude,peacefulness,�mystique�of muskie fishing in that?Man that�s not for me!
Then I realize that�s the point,it isn�t for me.Now.And further,I�m being hypocritical to think that way as I reflect back on my muskie fishing history and recall days in the 70s when I�d fish the weed beds in Portage Bay of Leech Lake with 20 other boats nearby doing the same thing,or reflect back to when I occasionally fished tournaments or relished the �competition�of catching and reporting �numbers�in other contests.Then that kind of fishing obviously was for me.
So whats my point you ask?More than one really.With age I�ve learned that satisfaction varies from person to person and that most will change their reasons for fishing,and for fishing muskies specifically,as they motor through life.But most importantly,with age,I�ve learned that asking these questions of myself,and answering them honestly,leads me to focus on where,when what and how I want to fish which in turn,assuming I follow the course that dictates,leads to satisfaction at the end of each season regardless of the number or size of fish caught and released.
Resolve to try it.Ask yourself these 2 questions,be honest with yourself and maybe you�ll have clearer goals and more satisfaction each season.
Have a great season folks!
Remember:thinking is just being thoughtful.
See you next issue.
Dick

[dpear]

Another oldie.

A FISH STORY-AND A BIT MORE

Hi Folks.How about a fish story?I’ve sure got one for you and while some may question it(I would have if not there),its true.
First let me set the scene.Its July and prime casting time on Lake Of The Woods.Prime surface bait time.I’m staying and fishing with my good friend Barry who had just built a new cabin on an island.His dad and brother-in-law were there as well and were doing some finishing work on the cabin while we fished.Fishing was good and topwater activity was picking up as our week progressed.
About noon one day we pull up to a large reef we know quite well but one that,with most water conditions,is hard and hazardous to fish thoroughly.A complex spot with numerous shallow rocks,deeper holes,fingers,etc.
Since its relatively calm I decide to get right up on it and pick it apart.I’m throwing a Topraider,one of my favorite surface baits.As we work the reef, I take a cast into very shallow water near a couple of large boulders and am rewarded with a follow by a monster-the likes of which I hadn’t seen in years.After quickly swinging the boat away from the spot,I turn and Zing,in goes Toppie and ‘pop,pop,pop’here it comes back-right through the gap between the boulders.As Toppie clears the gap the seas part into a black hole type swirl and the she monster emerges with my leader in her mouth and Bull Frog Toppie swinging futiley free on the far side. My computer quickly spits out that my only hope is to reset once she opens her mouth during her repeated,almost slow motion like,headshakes.Of course,she opens,I set-and dang near knock Barry out of the boat with the returning Toppie.Anger,embarrassment,sick stomach,appologies to Mr Toppie,you know,the usual,describes my reaction afterwards but, being an expert on this type thing,I eventually recover.Sort of.
Well no surprise but we beat the spot to near death day and night for a day or two to no avail.She’s gone- forever we think.Now we come to the last evening of the trip. Barry’s dad and bro-in-law have been working hard all week and we decide we should take them out that evening.Its decided Barrys dad,Jim(an accomplished multi-species fishermen)will go with me and its agreed we get ‘the reef’ at dark.As we are about to depart the dock,Barry walks over and hands his dad his scarred and well used Baby Loon Topraider with a precautionary statement,”Dad,don’t lose this,I’ve caught many muskies on it,including three 50s”.
Fast forward now to dusk,the bewitching hour.The wind is ‘up’and for the last hour or so I’ve been debating where our last stop will be.Wind or not,I decide it better be ‘the reef’.As we head that way I explain to Jim it will be difficult to fish-especially the spot where ‘it’was,but that I’ll be able to slide into a gap upwind of the spot,hold the boat,and let him cast to it.(Honestly,had I thought there was even the remotest chance of ‘it’being there,I wouldn’t have handled it this way,at least until I made 10 casts there myself.)
We do just that,Jim makes the perfect cast and Toppie starts ‘pop,poppin’his way home.After it clears the boulders uninjured,I glance away to verify our position and to start extricating us from the spot-just in time to miss the seas parting again,but even in the wind and all the commotion going on,there was no missing the loud ‘whoosh’ of that sucking chest wound type sound some big fish make when striking a bait on the surface.I turn and see her,the she monster,slowing shaking her head-with Baby Loon nicely stuck in her huge mouth.Instinctively I holler,’set again’,and Jim,an ex-marine-a very big ex-marine- does.Perfect I think momentarily.Only momentarily because a split second later Baby Loon was sailing past my head.’Oh no’,I said,’not again’.Yes again.The she monster was gone-again.
I ‘m looking away,unsure what to say,wishing I’d never said ‘set again’,when Jim says ‘Dick,look at this’.He’s holding Toppie and it takes me a second or two to realize something is wrong.Then it takes a few more seconds to comprehend precisely what is wrong.Only the top half of Toppie is still there!The bottom half is gone!Missing!AWOL!
What the heck I say as he swings it to me.And there it is,top half only,the through wire looking cleanly snipped off.By teeth?Impossible,right?Bottom line is we spend a long time that night and in subsequent days replaying,studying and thinking about this.There is only one plausible explanation.I have caught many muskies,big muskies,on Topraiders,as has half the western world.Its always been indestructible.I’ve always thought(still do think)its an engineering marvel with the straight tail and tank like construction.so whats the only plausible explanation?Fatigue,plain and simple.Numerous muskie,including many big ones.Numerous pike,including many big ones.Thousands of casts.A big fish that’s unmoveable,with leverage,coupled with braided line and a big ex-marine hookset=she monster escaping.A freak incident but true-not a ‘fish story’.Honest.
Barry is upset about Baby Loon of course,but his dad didn’t lose the bait-at least not the entire bait-so he has no recourse.Of course,we rename the reef.It’s now called ‘Top Half’.


*sidebar: Is this criticism of Topraiders?Absolutely not.The opposite in fact,an endorsement.I never leave the dock without a couple of Toppies in my boat.The message here is simple and basic,everything fatigues with use and time.Heck,I verify that every morning when I look in the mirror.The solution,whether dealing with gear or your body,is to recognize the fact and deal with it.

A BIT MORE
The ‘she monster’in the story above was in a foot of water or less all three times she was seen.Super shallow.What’s with that?Is it normal?Unusual?Was it the weather?The stained,fairly dirty water?Was she feeding?Digesting?Global warming?
You know what?Despite being intrigued by it,and despite writing a lot about it in recent years(recall my articles about the ‘twi-lite’ and photosynthesis zones,a muskies temperature comfort zone,and a host of other reasons I think they are shallow 99% of the time),I really don’t care’why’ anymore.Muskies are the top of the food chain.They go where they want,when they want.More and more I’m seeing they want shallow water.Very shallow.Very often.Under varying conditions.They are there and I’ll be there more often myself.Even on Trout or very clear waters, although so far my very shallow success there has been limited absent wind or current.
The reality Im afraid,is that I haven’t gone shallow enough in years past and have ‘missed’a lot of big fish as a result.I pass this on,for what its worth.

Remember:Thinking is just being thoughtful.See you next issue.
Good fishing!
Dick

[fish_wizard]

Thinking of toppies... besides Alexandra Daddario

There was a time, back before the big double blade age, when you could throw a topraider all day long, or pretty much all week long, and be quite productive. Does anyone still do this, or have times changed too much? It's still one of the best lures to put on the line of newb, of which I have two in my group this year. I'm referring more to the general style of tail prop bait, than the specific brand.

[dpear]

Ryan since the last movie I went to was 'Sands Of Iwo Jima' starring John Wayne and my monochrome TV has tired cathode ray tubes you got me with the Alexandra Daddario thing.Had to google her-thanks,not a waste of time.
As to 'Toppies' I always have comments.Still one of the greatest baits ever.AND,if you've ever worked trying to design a reliable,tough and consistent surface bait,you quickly realize it's an engineering marvel and design as well.Genius actually.
Have to say though my success with them the last few years has dropped considerably.IMO one can't put one on and just 'go' anymore.Not sure why but it's incredible success itself has been a partial reason I'm sure.'Conditioning' plays a role.Prime weather and time cures a lot though-and don't leave the dock without one.
Others?Lot's of 'props' out there now and some with significantly different sound signatures that can,i think,make a difference.No harm in trying higher or lower pitched sounds-or louder.As mentioned in another response,I've spent lotsa $ on new ones.Consider,among many others,lures from Lake X(can you not like a lure named 'Fat Bastard'?);Big Mama and the newer plastic Pacemakers from Drifter Tackle.Gonna be trying a number of others but no experience with them yet but maybe know more by the time you arrive.
Travel safe.

[dpear]

Ryan,before coming up,grab a couple Suick Nite Walkers.

[fish_wizard]

:confused: Not sure why this went here.

[fish_wizard]

I do have some nite walkers in my collection and will definitely bring them.

Maybe it's just revisionist history, but I do think that, in general, the top water bite has gone down in the past few years. Granted my trips and time on the water is a sad reflection of what it once was. Maybe it's just the reduced number of reports that are posted these days? Just don't hear about as many jackpot, creeper, or even hawg wobbler fish.

Am I off base?

Ryan

[musky1969]

Nope Ryan your right top water has gone way down in the last 10 years :( I bet in the last 5 years caught 3 fish on top water?? And it's thrown a lot Carol loves the Top Raider !
Darren

[whynot]

I do have some nite walkers in my collection and will definitely bring them.

Maybe it's just revisionist history, but I do think that, in general, the top water bite has gone down in the past few years. Granted my trips and time on the water is a sad reflection of what it once was. Maybe it's just the reduced number of reports that are posted these days? Just don't hear about as many jackpot, creeper, or even hawg wobbler fish.

Am I off base?

Ryan

I've had good luck on 10" weagles the past few years out of the back of my buddy's boat. Had a few musky strikes on Topraiders, one hooked. I've only been going up to LOTW since 2009, though, so no info before that.

By the way, when I logged in about 95% of this thread disappeared...not sure what the deal is there. Great forum, love all the info from everyone. I'll be up June 30-July 5, hopefully will have a positive report!

Chris

[dpear]

Fish or 2 here/there on surface.Heard of a 43 yesterday on a Whopper Plopper.Know a guy in(or near)Camp that has 4 on a Crackpot so far.:)

[dpear]

Hey Ryan,couple of the fish I caught today were on Mr Toppie.Sweet.Will send you a pic or 2.One did the fabulous strike n tail walk like you captured on the video.Only thing missing was the 'Dick,Dick,Dick Dick'.:cool:

[musky1969]

Here you go Ryan Carol's Top Water !! https://youtu.be/AFWpJRjyDvw

[dpear]

Speaking of prop baits,most new ones nowadays are big and 'loud'.All good but not always the answer.Some may recall the old Rumbler designed by friend Don Schwartz.The protos and those made by Don himself were outstanding with a subtle,quieter yet high pitched popping sound.Incredible BIG fish catchers!!!Well last week I took out my last 'new' proto of Dons.A pretty green orange combo-at least it was then.Not so much now.4 nice fish in the last 2 days.Sound matters.;):cool::p

[dpear]

And while on the subject and to confirm prior claims that the Rumbler was great for biggies,I can state that Frankies new Operation Muskie hand made Rumbler scored a BIG today.Happily I can state I was throwing it however.:D
It got hurt pretty bad in the process though.:(

[whynot]

So a couple days, or at least parts of days, on this last trip I was fishing third out of the back behind bucktails and was getting fish to follow to the boat on a shallow invader using a pull/pause retrieve. These fish looked like they were trying to lick the bait. I tried other lures after the second or third nice fish that did this but nothing else got them to move. Anyone run into a similar situation and found a lure they'd eat?

I tried Topwater, gliders, burning blades and other cranks.

[dpear]

I've seen Maina n others do it with Tubes or some rubber ducky type deal but,for me,it' a suick.
Fish nutso today,broomhandle would work.

[dpear]

A few current thoughts on current.This year has been a current guys dream,sometimes nightmare,because of the large volume of water going through the system and the fairly relentless winds from often rapidly changing directions.Often overwhelming to deal with and exploit meaningfully even for an old 'current guy' like me.It might be on a point,a large saddle or even an extended reef but often if observant,one will see distinctly different flows and directions -with often multiple eddies on the same piece of structure you are working.
Clearly frustrating -especially for control freaks like me that want to 'handle' the situation properly.At such times here's a proposed remedy to consider.When in this situation,just let the boat go.You heard me right,take the foot off the pedal and let the current take you.I suggest what you will find,often enough to convince me,is exactly what you are looking for.Fish.
As I'm being dragged along,sometimes even against a substantial wind,I just fan cast to likely spots but almost invariably end up in an eddy edge or place that the fish do as well.Often a place that will surprise you.Did it with success again today and met face to face with a fattie.
Worth a shot IMO.

[dpear]

Weed issues,pressure,but most importantly weather,has me concerned.Where can an internet dinasaur find temp and average wind speed info for say the last 10 yrs?
Comments,concerns and thoughts of all welcome.

[dpear]

I'm talking Lake Of The Woods area only.Thanks to a friend for pointing out my lack of specificity.

[Jerryhal]

weather underground had a history search where you can select the dates you want history and averages.

[Jerryhal]

nevermind weather underground only lets you see history in 2 year increments.

[dpear]

Wow,thanks Jerry.Tons of historical data there at least back to 1997.Now if I can figure out how to use it.

[dpear]

There are literally hundreds of 'studies' of oceans and some of freshwater dealing with 'climate change' but has anyone seen ANY that pertain to the lakes and waters of traditional muskie regions?
Glittering generalities are all I can find.
http://www.nwf.org/News-and-Magazines/Media-Center/News-by-Topic/Global-Warming/2013/09-04-13-New-Report-Details-How-Climate-Change-is-Harming-Freshwater-Fish.aspx

[dpear]

Quick note.Look out for the InFish 2017 Pike/Musky guide.Few people who show up on this site now n then,may talk about surface baits.

[dpear]

Somewhere in this maze of misinformation I seem to recall a discussion of the sad and still developing weed situation on LOTWs but too busy to track it down now.(truly and ironically cause I'm heading out to spray weeds)
If anyone has seen any info on this situation or has any thoughts on it,please post up.

[dpear]

Bit of an update:
Haven't found much on the weed situation so just chatted with friend and In Fish writer,Gord Pyzer.
Gord has lived in Kenora for most of his life and at one time was OMNR District manager there.He is VERY well versed on and in tune with Lake Of The Woods.
Gord indicated Rusties have indeed decimated the weeds.The OMNR
Lake Assessment Unit has been tracking them via traps and they are now as far north as they can go and near as far to the west as they can go.(heading into Clearwater Bay now.)
He indicated at some point,'exotics' like Rusty crawfish usually reach a state of equilibrium or steadiness but did not feel they are there yet due to the still massive numbers existing and,even when they do,there is no guarantee the weeds will come back.Time will tell I guess.
So,wait and see it is.
Sadly there is another and more recent complication I guess.Spiny waterfleas are invading the lake and apparently decimating native zooplankton-yet are doing so without eating the algae that crates the dreaded 'bloom' we often see in later summer and fall.Damn!Stay tuned on that.

[Frank Walsh]

Posted for Dick due to some technical issue:



Bit of an update:
Haven't found much on the weed situation so just chatted with friend and In Fish writer,Gord Pyzer.
Gord has lived in Kenora for most of his life and at one time was OMNR District manager there.He is VERY well versed on and in tune with Lake Of The Woods.
Gord indicated Rusties have indeed decimated the weeds.The OMNR
Lake Assessment Unit has been tracking them via traps and they are now as far north as they can go and near as far to the west as they can go.(heading into Clearwater Bay now.)
He indicated at some point,'exotics' like Rusty crawfish usually reach a state of equilibrium or steadiness but did not feel they are there yet due to the still massive numbers existing and,even when they do,there is no guarantee the weeds will come back.Time will tell I guess.
So,wait and see it is.
Sadly there is another and more recent complication I guess.Spiny waterfleas are invading the lake and apparently decimating native zooplankton-yet are doing so without eating the algae that crates the dreaded 'bloom' we often see in later summer and fall.Damn!Stay tuned on that.

[dpear]

Thanks Frank.Surprising I would have a tech issue.Anyway appears it's been resolved.

[dpear]

A ray of hope.Over the last few years I've monitored the weed situation in many bays and other places.When they disappeared the weeds have remained absent in the vast majority of places.In some 'junk' weeds and what I call big leaf tobacco cabbage has appeared and they hold some fish but now I am finding a few spots where the original cabbage appears to be starting to return.Not many spots and not much cabbage but some.Today I went to one of my old favs,I check it every year,and there,in one corner was a half boat sized spot of 'good' cabbage.Yeh!!!!!!

[musky1969]

What was the name of that bay again 😉 lol

[dpear]

Behemoth Bay.

[dpear]

So I travel to New Mexico to chase the mighty Wapiti and what do I run into?Muskie addicts.
They have one lake with Tigers but they have the 'bug'.Bad.Spent too much time talking baits,not bugles.

[Tim Kelly]

My wife takes people out horse riding round Windsor Great Park, which surrounds Windsor Castle. A couple of months ago she had a couple of Americans out and it turned out the guy was into musky fishing. She had to tell him that her husband spent the first half of their honeymoon on LOTW a thousand miles away from her. Poor Gilda, she's used to me now. :cool:

[dpear]

A disease Tim,one that is spreading.

[Frank Walsh]

50,000 views!!!!!!!

[Tim Kelly]

I bet I'm down for 10k. LOL

[dpear]

Serious fishing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BomQxCG5VG4&feature=s&app=desktop

[Tim Kelly]

Excellent! Happy Christmas. :)

[dpear]

Can anyone provide a little more info about this?

http://lakesuperiorreserve.org/event/muskie-research-tracking-estuary/

[dpear]

This goes into the 'for what it's worth' bucket.
Yesterday I had a long but interesting discussion with a friend I hadn't talked to in quite awhile.This guy is 'A' rated and spends most of his time fishing 'gin bottles'(clear 'trout' type waters).The subject of LOTWs and increasing water clarity came up and the discussion got very interesting.Again,for what it's worth,here's a couple points we agreed on if the clarity trend continues:
1.Trout water tactics(depth,lures,structure,weather,'light' conditions etc)will become more important.
2.Secondary and particularly non-traditional structure will become more important.
3.Trolling will become more than just a Fall tactic.A couple things here really got me thinking and now that I have Frankies old Alaskan,complete with top(sun screen),I may have to sit back,sip non alcoholic mint juleps and troll more mid days and during ''high skies'.Not a bad deal for an old man anyway.:-)

I knew the above comment was in this thread somewhere.(2008)
Was I right?Ask one of the best Fisherman I know who trolled most of the last few days with success.
Water temps hitting 90 on the surface?Rapid build up in temps as well?
Think about deeper,cooler, current etc.

[musky1969]

We do pretty good for the little time we troll in August on those high sky days, a few years back got a 49", 45" & 46" when we did't see nothing casting all morning !
D

[dpear]

I suspect Carole got all 3.