Big Fish Come back question

[opierye]

This is somewhat related to the guru's thread, however I did not want to jack it.

When we locate a big girl - we usually come back on majors and minors. We throw different baits and change our cast angles. The fish will usually follow several times during the week, however we rarely get her to eat. Often times - we will catch another fish out of that spot - only to realize in the net - THAT ISNT HER.

Is that more common than uncommon? Or are we screwing something up?

[NETim]

That's how I roll. I fish. I leave the catchin' to the pros. :)

[Ed Spoerl]

My 2 cents.... I think that some fish are just territorial and chase baits out of an area but never eat. I think most here will agree that they have many stories of raising the same fish from the same spot all summer long.
I know it’s not a popular theory that muskies can be territorial but it’s the only reasonable conclusion that I have come up with. Have see too many examples of what I thought were aggressive fish charge after a bait and follow it out of cover, then turn around and return back to its spot. Then do this same maneuver all summer long regardless of the bait or condition.
Ed

[fishwizard]

I think that is more common than uncommon, but I'm a hack, so take that for what you will. I've only had a couple come-back monsters decide to eat and even they were able to avoid a photo session. Those fish that hit, did so on the original bait they'd followed in on. One fish I saw a couple times a day for three and a half days without hitting. I tried multiple approaches and baits, but she was just putting on a show. A true railroad tie with fins. Sometimes I can see why some guys would carry guns with them in the old days. I'm not saying I could or would shoot a muskie, but I understand.

Ryan

[jimmyb]

Along the same line. I've got another fishing guru question. How long is it after a big fish bites that she's ready to bite again?

[dpear]

Since opinions are still cheap I had intended to respond earlier but then senility entered the picture.I actually tried to find an article I wrote for EA titled(I think);'The Follow,The Return'.Actually had a few goodies in it so maybe Dave can come up with it????
For now I'll just weigh in on jimmyb's question.Jimmy,they'll bite as soon as my wife returns.Almost without fail.For me?Rarely no matter what time I return.Nevertheless,I return quickly and often with the same bait IF the fish was hot.Real quick if it was hot and there are other people around.
OK,time for a fish story-only cause my wife will verify it.Many years ago we were fishing a very clear lake.We each had a 50 inch plus follow on opposing points on each end of a lil island.Both low and slow but the kind that went around and around.I probably wouldn't have returned til dark,if at all that day,but the boss insisted.Stories ending?-30 minutes later we returned and we each caught one on figure 8s.Ask her about mine at Op M,she'll love to tell you.Particularly since while leaning over the side to release mine,I fell in and lost my brand new Sunnies.She periodically brings that up.:o

[dpear]

Maybe upon review I misunderstood your Q jimmy.Now I see the 'bite' thing.In that case,would need to know if it bit and got off,was caught and released,etc before I threw in an inflation proof opinion.

[Muskie Junkie]

I can only speak of the (1) time it happened to me. On LOTW ( of course) I lost a fish at right around noon. Hooked on the figure 8 and then lost just as she was going to go in the net. She was pushing 50. The next day we hit the same spot at the same time and my partner ( the infamous Sully) said to get in the front and run the boat, this was my spot and I was on fire. ( I had just boated (2) fish and had like (5) others up. Same little bay, same lure, this time she ate out on the cast off a rock about 30 feet from where she came from the first time. This time in the net and my personal best of 49. May have been a different fish but they were so close in size and out of a relatively small bay( garage as the Musky Hunter guys call them) I truly believe it was the same fish. So, how long until they bite again? 24 hours of course.

Steve

[mofferman]

One expierence i had was my old man hooked a low-mid 40's musky fought it for roughly a minute and it got off swam underneath the boat and crushed my buddies smallmouth bass he had on his lure. I was simply amazed to watch this right in from of my eyes. It wouldnt let go of the smalley for about thirty seconds then finally figured something wasnt right and let go and swam off. This was our last hour or so of our trip so we never got another chance at it but it was cool.

[dpear]

I suppose the quickest rebite would be those that hit,get off,then get caught on a second hit on the same cast.Had that happen quite a few times myself and seen it many times.My PB is 3 strikes in one cast-catching it on the 3rd strike.I've seen it 3-4 times though.The record for my boat is again my wife's though.Never forget it,yellow harrasser bucktail(normally a great hooker),thrown to what forever after has been called 'suicide rock'.Cast lands,she gets about 2 turns on the reel,bang-on/off once;bang-on/off twice;bang-on/off third time;bang-hits it boatside and is boated.Fat,troutwater 46.:rolleyes:

[dpear]

Found the article I had written on follows and returns.Written in 1999,published in EA in the Aug/Sept 2000 issue.Guess there’s a way to scan and post but that’s way beyond me so for what it’s worth I’ll briefly summarize it.(my views have changed slightly but not significantly-all opinions anyway).

First I addressed the issue of do you throw back right after the follow?Of course,you found a biggie,why walk away.If ‘hot’ I throw right away with the same lure.If ‘lukewarm’,consider switching baits and/or angle and going with ‘speed’ as a trigger.Maybe burn a bucktail.If low and slow,consider a deeper twitch or jerk that will hang in it’s face between moves.(note some guys just park on the fish,I don’t,never seen it work,but some do with success.I guess.)

OK,didn’t score so when do I return?Basically it depends on fishing pressure and the fishes mood.If people are around,go back quick.(15-30 minutes?)If ‘hot’ go back quick etc.It all really boils down to your experience and your gut feeling.

If there’s no pressure and the fish wasn’t hot,I don’t go back til I have some significant environmental change.Light changes(clouds,dawn,dusk,etc);Weather changes(wind –strength or direction,fronts,barometric,air temp,etc);or for many,a solunar change(majors/minors,moon/sun etc).

Always go back with a GOOD HOOKING confidence bait,often incorporating ‘speed’ as a trigger.

Always exercise boat control.You may change ‘angles’ or direction of approach(come on,do fish really reason and does it really matter?)but regardless,don’t blow the spot for lack of control.For instance,I often set up a silent drift but NOT if I can’t keep from blowing too close etc.

Always use the ‘perfect partner’ concept.Simply stated,only ONE person should throw-at least the first few casts.Multiple baits landing-often landing off the spot due to hurried competition-is counter productive IMO.Normally the person who had the follow is it but flip a coin if you can’t agree.(or just let your better half do it.Like me.As if I had a choice if she’s along.Lifes too short.:()

Abbreviated version but hopefully a lil food for thought and experimenting.

[jimmyb]

OK, so what about one you've caught????

[fishwizard]

Thinking back, I don’t believe I’ve ever had a fish truly hooked, then get off, then come back later and catch it. I’ve had the multiple hits on a single retrieve deal too, or on immediate throw-back casts, but rarely were those fish hooked well enough for alarms to go off in the fish’s head obviously. I don’t know that alarms would ever go off in a fish’s head, but since that happens in a certain Guru’s head quite often, I can only speculate that it must happen to large muskies as well. It is seldom that I ever see previously “lost” fish again on return trips to the spot. Maybe I’m doing it wrong.

Fish that bite, but that don’t actually hit the lure or get the hooks are much more likely to still be caught. A swing and a miss, is what I would consider the hottest of follows. I’d guess that your best chance at catching those fish is in the next few throws back to the spot. Often times, it seems like when a big fish swings and misses, they are so embarrassed that you just never see them again. That most likely goes back to me doing something wrong.

I think one big thing to consider on what to do after an unsuccessful “bite” is to think about the fish’s location prior to your cast. Can you pinpoint where the fish was set up before hand? How much did it move from that spot before the bite? How long was it hooked and therefore pulled from the spot? The size and type of structure that was the spot on the spot makes a difference on whether or not the fish is going to go right back there and set up its ambush point again.

For instance, a big fish in a large weed bed is not near as likely to go right back to the same clump of weeds once it’s been pulled off by a lure. If it is only a couple boulders or a small clump of cabbage on an otherwise scattered or bare shoreline, then you can just about guarantee that fish will go right back to that exact spot, and therefore you may be better off giving it some time to get back there and comfortably set up again, than you are throwing right back and drawing it further away from the set up ambush point.

It is difficult to think that way in the heat of the moment and realize what just happened and what is before you without continuing to flog away at it. That’s why I’m doomed to always be a hack and never a guru, because as great as I can break something down behind a keyboard, I don’t always think the same way when I’m actually chucking baits. Back to the point, I honestly think that unless you get lucky and it hits again immediately you aren’t likely to catch it, or often even see it again later after flogging at a biter immediately without success. Granted, if we are talking about several hours later or at the end of the day, then this negative flogging affect is reduced, but there is also more time for the fish to have found its meal and/or simply moved on.

The encounters like this that I’ve learned the most from, have been those marvelous instances where you happen upon active fish set up in picture perfect spots that you see the fish move from and it is obvious exactly where the fish was sitting. When you can identify that in the moment and give the fish time to get cozy again is your best bet at producing a reaction strike. Then it just comes down to perfect cast placement to make it happen. For times like that, I think that high hooking percentage baits that don’t have a massive amount of splashdown disturbance are key. Don’t cast past the fish to try and bring it by it first if it is set up pointing out towards you. Cast just close enough that it can pounce without having too much time to think about it. And most importantly, don’t f—k up the net job. ;)

Ryan

While I often don't really know what I'm talking about, I do love the discussion.

[dpear]

In the recent past,I caught a 46 incher 24 hours after someone else from Baystore caught and released it.Still had that persons tat on it.(and that person agrees its the same fish-although it clearly took more skill/finesse/expertise etc to catch it the second time.:p)