Best Ice Stick For Walleyes On LOTWs????

[Frank Walsh]

With the constant improvement and new technologies, I thought I'd solicit opinions on what people think are the best walleye ice fishing rods now available. I would assume there may be a favorite for a dead stick, and another for aggressive jigging. I'd like to see specific rods, and the logic for choosing it.

[DSmith]

Great question Frank. I am considering replacing one or two of my rods and find that there are graphite, fiberglass and telescoping available. One of the models will show up in your fishing house in 3 weeks.

[Muskie Nut]

Frank just stick with a willow stick, it has great tip action.:D:D

[Stretch]

I currently own 11 ice rods. Ugly Stick makes nice ice rods, Dave Genz has his own line, Thorne Brothers in Fridley,Mn makes nice rods, St. Croix has rods and they will replace them if broke while catching a fish. Several more, some cheap, some expensive. I usually spend around $30 for the rod and the same for a 3-5 ball bearing reel. Make sure you use an ice line, as summer line does not react the same to very cold water. Myself, i mainly use medium action rods and some light sction-but not ultra-light.

I am also one to try something new. I bought a Wrist Savor rod this year and will see if it helps wrist fatigue, due to the number of fish caught on each ice fishing trip to Baystore.

[Frank Walsh]

Here is an answer that was sent to me directly:

" I would prefer a good quality 28 to 30 inch rod with a Tennessee cork handle with a minimum of five guides. It should be medium action with a semi-whippy tip. A good reel with a very good drag system is a must. Thorne Brothers makes a very nice walleye rod but others can be bought for less that work just as well. The Shinamo AXULS or TX500 are good reels or the Tica Cetus is also a good one. I use Cajun Red line in 4# test, otherwise I use Trilene XL. Never use superbraid on ice. Line stretch gives a better hook set when fishing vertical. I usually have a 36" leader of 6 to 8 pound flourocarbon tied on at the business end too. Hope that helps".


Muskie Nut,

I prefer hickory. To smack you across your butt!

[dpear]

The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight 'line',so I use the fastest rod I can pack.Usually about a 55 grain weight on the end of the 'line'.:D

[Muskie Nut]

Here is an answer that was sent to me directly:

Muskie Nut,

I prefer hickory. To smack you across your butt!

Careful Frank, or me and my union buddies will kick your arse!:D:D:D

[Illinois Dennis]

Well Frank, you have a rather unique ice rod- on the long side (40 inches I'm guessing) with plenty of backbone and somewhat of a soft tip. I plan to make one someday since you can't buy em like that from what I see.

What they sell now are more "specialty" rods, some for pan fish and others for walleye and then the bigger ones for pike- which are generally too stiff for jigging walleye. I just went thru my rods. I bought most of them at Gander Mtn when they go on sale for 50% off late in the season. I'd say the "best" all around is called a 28" Professional "Ultra-Lite" Gander brand graphite, 5 guides. The rod diameter is rather thin at the tip (.050") but about .180” dia at the handle. Has a good "feel" for jigging and plenty of backbone and a “slow” flex or action (most of the rod bends- not just the upper tip section). I'd say to pass on all the light looking rods- some of them have rod tips in the .030" diameter range- no good for LOTWs in my opinion unless you are a true finesse
Fisherman and need the super light tip for tough conditions. Most will have rod diameters around .170" or less at the handle; one like that with a .050” tip is OK. If you have the bucks, name brand rods are always a good/better investment.

It pays to get a decent reel. There are a lot of good name brand ones out there. The last ones I got were also Gander brand and had 6 ball bearings and are still in good shape. Not the best reel you will find but not bad. If you have the money, go for a good name brand reel. The cheaper ones are no good after one trip. Try to get 3 rods with a little different action and identical reels if possible. I'd go for the ones with extra spools too. That would be a perfect set-up for LOTWs, 3 rods, 6 spools and 3 reels the same- so you can reuse the parts if one breaks. That would be my advice. If you have the money, more equipment is always a good idea since things tend to break more while ice fishing.

Looking at my rods, some say med-heavy action but have less backbone than the one that says "ultra-lite", so you need to bend them with your hands to test the power and not go by what they say on the rod. Generally, they have lite power but they do vary from rod to rod. You want a "slow" action as apposed to a "fast" action where just the tip is doing most of the bending. Just my opinion; I'm sure everyone may argue what's best.

Get good 3lb braded ICE line or 2lb during the day light and maybe 4lb for evenings. Mono just doesn't cut it outside the fish house since it freezes “straight” and when you wind it on the spool and then open the bail, it wants to all come off at one time- built in spring action but what a mess that you will constantly fight till it gets so messed up you are done with that rig. If you are always in a heated fish house, I’m sure certain monos are great. It really comes down to personal preference and what you are used to and have confidence in.

[WallEYES]

Frank....Itend to agree with Muskie Nut...I use thorne bros. walleye sweetheart rod and will have one for you when I show up with the Worum group in March. I use a shimano axuls reel spooled with cajon 4# test. That same combo pulled that 42 inch pike and 2 of the 29 inch eyes out of one of your huts 2 years ago.....Also use that rock n reel device that you have for deadsticking, very deadly....you were talking to my son and I out there last year as you were pulling houses off the ice and saw that in action.....23" eye. very good weapon to have in your arsenal.

D.J.Mickelson

[Gissert]

I'll echo what WallEYES said. I like the Cajun line in 4 or 6 pound.

I have been using Gander Mountain "First Ice" series rods, which looks to be made from a YAD blank. I also have a couple of YAD rods that Billy Three Buckets gave me - that is what caught that 41 inch pike last winter.

I have two battered old Genz rods that have a decade under their belt. Bouncing around in my tub on countless miles of LOW trekking.

For deadstiking, I have a light action Gander/YAD rod on a Rock N Reel holder. Simply deadly. I will use a plain kahle hook, or a leadhead jig with a kahle style hook. Reverse hook the minnow, they tend to work a little harder and you should be able to see the minnow action if your tip is soft enough. I have a few Red Neck Tech hornet jigs left, though I am loathe to use them. They work very well, but I just cant find them any more.

[Frank Walsh]

Good stuff. Here's another one:

"I like ice blue and ugly stix.
More importantly I like my rod to be a medium light.
Those walleyes need something more than the wimpy
crappie rods.
Wish I was up there to try my theory"

[Frank Walsh]

Gissert & WallEyes,

Now that you bring it up, I'd like you guys to elaborate on the Rock N Reel holder you guys use. After seeing it in action, I'm convinced that it is a valuable tool that gets a lot of fish that you would not see otherwise. Especially on those fickle days, or a big wary beast.

I have a picture attached of Dave using one very successfully up here.

How about some more details.......

[Frank Walsh]

Here's some more data:

http://www.thornebros.com:80/winter/rods/thorne/custom_rods_menu.html

[Gissert]

More stuff on the Rock N Reel? OK - First of credit must be given to T-Bone, the inventor who also happens to be my brother. There are many copies out there, but the original works best due to outright simplicity.

First thing - take your bobber off and put it in your pocket. Bobbers still have a place in my tacklebox, but not so much when I fish LOW.

The upright arm has a horizontal peg, on which your rod will rest. I like to mount my reel so the reel mount is right behind the peg and the rod will hang with nuetral balance.

All you have to do now is let your jig/minnow down the hole, setting the desired depth with your flasher. Once that is done, I like to pull the transducer back out.

Rod choice plays an important part here. A nice soft tip that has a good backbone towards the rod butt works the best. The minnow should be able to be seen working the tip.

Now when a fish bites, the rod tip will start to dip down. If it is an agressive fish, it is obvious. If he bite is light, the indication will be a bit more subtle. Pick the rod off the peg, being careful not to put any tension on the line. Open the bail and watch for the line to play out. Here is the moment of truth - deciding when to set the hook. I like to watch for the line to stop playing out. Once you hook the fish, the fight is on like any other rod and reel combo.

The nuetral balance point is important, more so when targeting crappies. Often, crappies will feed up. When they take the bait, a strike indication will sometimes be a rising tip. With crappies, I tend to set the hook quicker than I would a walleye.

There have been some question over the years akin to "What happens when a really big fish grabs the rig? Does not the whole thing go down the hole?"

I suppose it could happen, but I have never seen it happen. One of the first years I was using the Rock n Reel, I had a 36 inch pike grab my jig. I was in a perm shack off Little Oak. The Rock n Reel slid across the floor, and got caught in the 10 inch hole. The upright arm prevented the rod from going down the hole. In fact, the rod never came off the peg. It just stayed there while the drag let the fish peel off the line. I grabbed the pole, pulled the Rock and Reel out of the way and the fight was on.

Last March, I was in my portable off Rabbit Ears, and a 41 inch pike grabbed my jig and took off. The Rock n Reel never moved, and the rod just pumped up and down as the fish peeled of the line.

As Frank will testify to - we often do pretty good when the bite is tough. High pressure, clear skies and no wind is usually a sign that the fishing will be difficult. On these days, the Rock n Reel presentation will outperform active jigging by a big margin.

[WallEYES]

Well said Gissert! Have a great New Years everyone

[DSmith]

Ok, where do you get the Rock N Reel? Is it available on line or is it special order? Super replies from the thread on Ice Fishing Rods. I now have a better idea of what I want.

[Illinois Dennis]

Wonder if ole Frank would take orders for those visiting him this year and get them all in so they would be there for us. Maybe even a few "rental" units???

[DSmith]

Good idea!! Frank, what do you think about getting these in for us?

[Frank Walsh]

We will have to ask Gissert if they still have any available.

Well????????????????????????????????

[Gissert]

You'd have to ask T-Bone. I dont think he has made any for a while. I'll give him a shout and point him to this thread.

[DSmith]

Tip Down? How about it T-Bone?

[T-Bone]

A little history on the Rock n' Reel. It was born out of missing too many walleyes one night in 1999 on Lake Minnetonka. I was fishing on a transition zone from deep to shallow so the bite window was 30-40 minutes max. When you have to whack and stack to eat walleye, you can't miss too many or the effort to get set up early and be ready before they come by is wasted completely.
After missing about four fish that night due to slow reaction to a dead stick in a "rod holder", I went home with my tail between my legs and my McGuyver brain engaged. There wasn't anything out there that could out-fox the finicky walleyes. Alot of experts say that all you need is a soft tip on your rod. That is not totally correct. It seemed anything that gave the slightest resistence to the minnow would cause them to drop the bait and be gone.
I must admit, what with all of the time I had spent trying to out-finesse these critters, it didn't take too long to come up with a solution. I slapped together a 1X4 and a bent chromed steel store fixture hook and took it back to the lake the next evening. Same scenario; holes cut and ready an hour before the usual prime time. The first blip came up off the bottom in 29 feet and took the minnow on a plain walleye wide gap #4 hook. The rod tip sagged toward the hole slowly. I released the bail while shoving the rod tip dow the hole to ensure the fish didn't feel me and set the rod back on the holder. Once the line stopped coming off of the spool, I reset the bail and set the hook. When the line stops coming off, the fish either has it in all the way or it has been dropped. Reeling slowly at first to feel for weight helps alot. Once weight is felt, a snug tug will usually be all that is needed to set the hook. There is no need to cross the eyes of the fish if your hook is sharp. Also, using Trilene XL or even Cajun Red in 4# is enough. I experimented with Fireline a bit but with no stretch, it tended to yank the bait out of the fish's mouth alot. I also tie on a 36" flourocarbon leader. No magic to the 36" except for it lasts longer when you have to cut and re-tie several times before it gets too short again.
Anyhow, I didn't miss a fish that first night and it proved my theory.
To make a really long story alot shorter, I made a bunch of crude prototypes and shipped them to my friends in WI, MI and NY. After some positive reviews from them and others in MN, it sort of took off. I made some marketing mistakes, went through a re-design with a friend out in NY state, and actually took the thing to the Ice Show in St. Paul. I think it was there that the concept was really introduced (and as I found out) copied with some slight variations. So far, I think the thing has been re-introduced about ten times under different names. You might recognize the Lazy Jigger, Mr. Jigger, Rod Rocker and Rod Rocker II, Happy Snapper and there are more. The Rod Rocker ones are offered by the same guy who sells the Ice Buster bobbers. The owner of a popular fishing website also was influential in the failure of trying to market my product, then came up with a bent coat hanger version of his own to market on his website. I called it the "Dorky Dunker". He had another name for it.
Fishing gear marketeers are a tough bunch. The business is cutthroat through and through. I learned that lesson early but way too late. The Rock n' Reel was once featured in the In Fisherman Ice Fishing Guide a few years back. Those guys had Rock n' Reels and loved them. One was featured in an Aqua View video a couple of years back too.
I haven't built any of the "originals" for a few years now and have no plans to start back up. At least, not for now.
T

[Frank Walsh]

Here's some better pictures of Tom's device.

[DSmith]

Great pictures Frank. Now I can see how it works. Thanks T-Bone for the description of your Rock n' Reel. I will fashion one and hopefully it will work as well as yours.

[Frank Walsh]

Here's another picture.

[Illinois Dennis]

Guess I never seen one of these (don't go to any ice fishing shows). Looks like the rod is balanced on a peg so you can easily grab it... is that about it or am I missing something?

[Frank Walsh]

You're missing something. The rod is perfectly balanced on a fulcrum so any microscopic movement of the lure is detected. Sometimes so minute that the resistance of a bobber would spook the fish.

[Illinois Dennis]

With all that tape on the rod, figured that was to hold the reel on but could not tell if there was a "saddle" taped on the rod for the perfect balance spot. I get the perfect balance part, just didn't know if there was something else.

[Gissert]

That is just silicone Tommy Tape. It leaves no sticky residue on the handle when it is removed. It is several times thicker than electrical tape, so it looks a tad bulky after about three wraps.

If you position your reel as it is in the photos, you get a nice balance point right in front of the reel shank.

There were also some Rock and Reels made for portable tubs too, They fold against the tub when not in use or traveling, then flip out 90 degrees for fishing.

[Frank Walsh]

That's a better way of putting it. The perfect balance point. With that phrase in mind, you can really visualize how this set up will detect even the slightest sniff from a walleye.

On a similar note, I have to comment (again) on something I see all the time.
I'm a big fan of the Ice Buster bobber for a number of reasons. What I see as it's best feature, a lot of people do not take advantage of. The ability to trim the length to achieve almost neutral buoyancy in relationship to a given lure.

Makes a big difference when the fish are in a neutral state. I assume some are not aware of this option, and others are too cheap to modify the bobber, and render it useless for a heavier lure. I have seen days where this trick makes the difference from a zero to a hero.

I sure hope no one asks which side of the bobber to remove.:D

[Gissert]

Though I rarely use bobbers, when I do - it is the Ice Buster.

If you trim off a large piece, keep some toothpicks in your tacklebox. You can pin them back together if you go to a heavier lure.

[Frank Walsh]

Great idea. And you can pick your teeth as well.

[DSmith]

After seeing the Rock n' Reel up close, my 2x4 version is now going to be trashed. You used a material similiar to cutting boards for the base and upright. Guess a trip to a restaurant supply store will have to be planned. The same one where Gary gets his smoking spices for turkey, pork and beef. Dennis, with all your tools you should fashion a few for Frank to stock. I remember the rod holder apparatus you made for the Ranger. It works great. Thanks Gissert for all the info.

[Illinois Dennis]

Dick, once I know what I'm after, I'll make up a few. Been thinkin about it for a few years anyway so might as well put a few together- with a few twists of my own. I'll keep you posted but I won't be working on it anytime soon, not heading up north till probably March.

[DSmith]

I am going up the last week of January. March is Paddlefish snagging in Grove, OK.

[Frank Walsh]

If Dennis makes one, it will have lights, music, a cup holder, and vibrate.:D

[Gissert]

If you guys are looking for materials to make your heown rigs, try machinistmaterials.com

[DSmith]

Dennis, when you make the tip down include a alarm for those slow times when I am sleeping. I am leaving in the morning for four days of fishing at Franks along with my new Thorne Bros. 28" medium stick. I even put new line on my reel for the occasion. It should withstand all the hook sets that I anticipate. Remember that secret location? I will be there somehow.

[Illinois Dennis]

Dick, with your history on LOTWs, you will probably pull a pair of thirty inches out of the secret spot. I'm sure Frank will keep us posted with pictures.

[DSmith]

I will do my best. Nothing would please me more than being able to ring the famous Bell for a 30" Walleye. I haven't done it yet, close but no prize, in 9 years of ice fishing at Bay Store. Maybe Frank removed the bell for the winter and will put it back up in June for the start of Musky season.

[DSmith]

I would like to tip my hat to Gissert and TBone for their recommendations about the Tip Down. TBone's post on January 3rd was right on and everyone should read it again. For my setup I purchased the Rod Rocker II, purchased a fancy board and drilled it to hold the Rocker. I did not use any bobbers but just watched the motion of the rod. The sensitivity was unreal and I did not fear that the rod would come off the holder arm. Just shows that if you ask questions there is someone out there with answers. Thanks again guys.

[Gissert]

No problem, and glad you had such a good trip. Hopefully you left with all your gloves.

The rock n reel method can turn you from a zero to a hero on a tough bite.

[DSmith]

Had to chase a shoe for awhile.

[Frank Walsh]

Had a bit of a slow down on Saturday. I was really wishing that the guys were equipped with tip downs. Overall not a bad day, but I'd bet would make a difference.

Since T-Bone is out of it, I'll mention this brand:

http://todaystackle.com/rodrocker2.html

Although we all know who deserves the credit for this.

[WallEYES]

Frank
That would of been interesting if your clients used those to see how they would do.... we have been using them for years. I like GISSERTS famous quote a few posts back....it can make you a zero to hero on any day....very true!

[Frank Walsh]

Here's a few pics.

[DSmith]

Dennis, When are you going up to Franks? I am planning on the 3rd weekend in March to try the tip down on ice. Hopefully there will be no wind. That secret fishing location is calling me back. Maybe the ice road will still be there.

[Illinois Dennis]

Dick, still working on it. Having trouble with my fishing partner getting away right now, seems there is a bit of a downturn in the economy I guess.

Will let you know if/when it happens.

[Frank Walsh]

The big "K" must not be one of the lucky 95%............eh?

Mr. Smith. We started fishing your secret spot today, and all I'm willing to say is...............GOOD!

[DSmith]

John and I are ready to drop a line there. Getting my snowshoes or is it spelled snoshoe, ready for the long trek.

[Illinois Dennis]

Our industry was flat last year till Nov, then it dropped 20%-25%. Dec wasn't much better. Jan and Feb this year it is down 35%; loads of layoffs, etc. Need I say more.....

[DSmith]

I must still be recovering from the last trip in March to Franks as I did not let you know how things went. The ice was questionable but had no problem when we listened to everything Frank said. We had a snowmobile with a sled and fished a total of 4 secret spots. They are not secrets now. The larger Walleyes, not Elpout, escaped us but we did manage better than average sizes and amounts for the 2.5 days we fished. Weather was perfect with temperatures in the upper 20's and no wind. We did feed a couple of Elpouts to the only seagull on LOTW in March as he looked thin and hungry. He also consumed a crab in no time. We are planning on doing it again next year but a week earlier. All the terminal equipment worked great and the tip downs were the ticket. Now I can't wait until June for a return trip.

[Frank Walsh]

Hey. We are no longer talking about ice & snow. We're into boats these days.

[DSmith]

I know but I can still remember March. I am putting the Lund in the water tomorrow morning to see if everything is OK. Walleye are being caught in a lake near the house, so I might as well try. Someone caught last weekend a 12.5 pounder in 3 feet of water on that lake.

[Frank Walsh]

Try six feet. That's where the 25 pounders are.

[DSmith]

I will let you know how it goes.